Questioning One's Salvation

[steaver]

HP: Are you saying that I am guilty of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit Steaver?

Romans 8:16 declares the Holy Spirit testifies with one's spirit that they are a child of God. This is what part of being "born again" or "born of God" is all about.

Demons do not testify to one's spirit that they are children of God. We are talking about Spirit to spirit here, not trying another's doctrines or words such as 1 Jo 4 speaks about.

You judge for yourself and if need be, you may adjust your pov.

:jesus:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: For anyone to suggest that one who says "the Spirit of God has testified with my spirit that I am a child of God" could be deceived is to say one could be deceived of God and is to actually blasphemy the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

HP: Let me state again my position. I believe it is within the realm of possibilities that one could believe they have they witness of the Spirit and in the end find that they have been deceived. It could be that at one time they indeed had the witness of the Spirit but have turned away from obedience and done dispite the grace of God.

Jesus clearly stated that many shall be deceived as to their standing before Him. He stated that not all that call Him ‘Lord Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

Now where Steaver gets this demon bit is beyond me, for it does not take a demon for a man to be deceived. He is the only one that I know that has mentioned demons. I say it only takes a selfish will refusing to repent and turn from their sins to end up deceived. That aside, it is clear that Steaver has my comments in his sights as he sets up his accusation of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I am asking the two moderators that have been on this thread to tell me why I should not see Steaver’s remarks as being a direct attack on my salvation? We know that the unpardonable sin is the blasphemy of the Spirit. No one committing such can or will be saved. Will the moderators allow his comments to stand?

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

I have notified the mods of this forum. It is up to them to do as they see fit. I do not 'butt in' and make decisions on a forum unless I am the mod of that particular forum, but I DO think the two of you (Steaver and HP) need to iron out your differences privately via PM.

Sorry I couldn't help more.
§ue

 

[Amy.G]

Heavenly Pilgrim:
Jesus clearly stated that many shall be deceived as to their standing before Him. He stated that not all that call Him ‘Lord Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

HP, I think it's important to keep Jesus sayings in context. When He stated "many will say to Me Lord, Lord....", He was speaking to the Jews, who believed that they would enter heaven based on the fact that they were Jews. Jesus made it clear throughout the gospels, and Paul does as well, that nobody will find themselves in heaven because of their national heritage. Jesus is telling these Jews that there will come a day when they will stand before Him (another reference to His deity) in the judgment and they will be excluded from heaven because they rejected their own Messiah. He will say that He never knew them. This is not a reference to the born again Christian.

 

[steaver]

HP: Now where Steaver gets this demon bit is beyond me,

Actually, it came from your pov. You referenced 1 Jo 4, which speaks expressly of "spirits". Spirits are either of God or they are of the devil. Good angels, bad angels. Bad angels are refered to in the scriptures as "demons". It is a way of saying "bad angel".

[QUOTE]HP; I say it only takes a selfish will refusing to repent and turn from their sins to end up deceived.[/QUOTE]

I would agree, however we are not talking about the lost here. Those who are born of God have the Spirit witness in themselves. Spirit bearth witness with spirit that we are the children of God.

HP; tell me why I should not see Steaver’s remarks as being a direct attack on my salvation?

Here is why brother. I just called you brother, I believe you are saved because you confess Jesus is Lord and because you walk the talk. God judges the heart and God knows that you would never intentionally blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Here you do it out of an ignorance of the teaching of scripture, not intentionally. Your salvation is secure in Christ.

Now, if you would take the time to ponder my post and the facts I gave from scripture how the Holy Spirit testifying with spirit cannot be faked, That it is a ministry to the elect, you will see that your pov cannot stand and you will need to adjust it.

:jesus:

 

[steaver]

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is taking something that is the work of God and attributing it to the work of satan.

The scripture declares the Holy Spirit has a ministry spoken directly to the spirit of those in Christ. This ministry by it's very nature, God, cannot be messed with. There are not any spirits going around pretending to be the Holy Spirit and testifying to people's spirits that they are children of God. It doesn't happen, it isn't possible.

One can be deceived by many things, Spirit testifying with spirit is not one of them for it is only of God. Born Again!

Hope this helps!

:jesus:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

No dice Steaver. I could care less what you say to me. Remember how Brother Bob told you repeatedly he was not judging your salvation but the charges marched right on by DHK. Well your time is coming, You just wait and see. DHK is going to ram rod those charges right down your throat even as he did to Brother Bob. You just wait and see!

 

[steaver]

HP; Jesus clearly stated that many shall be deceived as to their standing before Him. He stated that not all that call Him ‘Lord Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

I don't believe this passage states anything about "deceived", this is your own interpretation. Scripture must interpret scripture and we find that these who cry Lord, Lord, never knew Jesus. Never means at no time in their life did they ever have the Spirit witness within their spirit. They did not cry to Jesus "but your SPirit witnessed to my spirit", no, they cried "we done wonderful works!"

This passage does not teach one can be deceived about being "born again". If one is born of God they KNOW it. Spirit testifys with spirit that we are the children of God. Praise Him!

:godisgood:

 

[TCGreek]

A careful reading of James reveals that he was questioning the salvation of his readers, esp. chapter 2:14-26.

 

[steaver]

No dice Steaver. I could care less what you say to me.

How about we just deal with the scriptures? Romans 8 declares the Spirit testifys with spirit that we are children of God. How do you say a spirit other than the Holy Spirit could be doing this? Can you give an example from scripture?

:jesus:

 

[steaver]

TC Greek
A careful reading of James reveals that he was questioning the salvation of his readers, esp. chapter 2:14-26.

Paul tells us we should know we are in Christ by the Spirit He gave us. The scripture says we know. Spirit testifies with spirit. If this can be faked by a demonic spirit then the test is worthless and nobody can know for sure they are saved.

 

[TCGreek]

Paul tells us we should know we are in Christ by the Spirit He gave us. The scripture says we know. Spirit testifies with spirit. If this can be faked by a demonic spirit then the test is worthless and nobody can know for sure they are saved.

The concept is all through the NT Scriptures.

 

[steaver]

TCGreek;

The concept is all through the NT Scriptures.

It is the foundation of being born of God, born again, regenerated, a new creature, in Christ, walking after the Spirit.

Romans 8 states; "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

It goes on to say; "For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."

Romans 8 is speaking directly to what a believer has RECEIVED. Those who believe in Jesus Christ have RECEIVED the Spirit "whereby we cry Abba, Father".

It goes on to say, same context, speaking about that which we have RECEIVED; Rom 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:



This is how a person can examine themselves to see if Jesus Christ is IN them. "Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you?"

If one is to ask another, how are you sure you are saved? And the one answers "because I know by the Spirit of Christ which God has joined with my spirit". They would be giving an accurate biblical answer, but even if they do not know the scripture which explains what they know is inside them, they still know.

Before I ever studied any scripture I knew the Spirit of God was in me guiding me, convicting me, helping me, scolding me. When I began to study scripture I began to fully understand what it was I was experiencing all my life since age ten, the time I called on Jesus to save me. It was the Spirit testifying with my spirit which also sustains my faith and my salvation.

Now this is the answer given in Romans 8. The Spirit is given to the believer and testifies always to the spirit. This is not something one has to "try" and see if it is of God. Therefore posting 1 Jo 4 as a admonition to test the "spirits" against Romans 8 as to whether or not one is saved is error and ignorance as to what Romans 8 declares of those IN Christ.

It would be blasphemy, however unintentional, because Romans 8 speaks of the ministry of the Holy Spirit inside the believer. The Holy Spirit is not to be questioned in this way as to suggest an evil spirit could be acting in place of the Holy Spirit. An evil spirit would not testify to God's children that we are the children of God, that is just plain dumb.

So anyone who has used 1 Jo 4 against Romans 8 can repent and God is faithful to forgive. We all have made misuse of scriptures in times past and we just need to recognize our error and repent. God loves humility, but dig your heels in and He will not be pleased.

:jesus:

 

[DHK]

No dice Steaver. I could care less what you say to me. Remember how Brother Bob told you repeatedly he was not judging your salvation but the charges marched right on by DHK. Well your time is coming, You just wait and see. DHK is going to ram rod those charges right down your throat even as he did to Brother Bob. You just wait and see!

HP, if you go back a few posts and read, you will find that I have already received some mod alerts about this thread.
This bickering has got to stop. The questioning of each others salvation is nothing else but personal attacks, of which we have plenty of examples in this thread by both sides. If it starts happening again after this thread closes, the matter will be taken up with the administration (as one administrator has already been involved here), and very likely action will be taken in the form of a suspension. Continued personal attacks cannot be tolerated.