Questions

[J.D.]

The way I see it is this: It isn't if they are elect or not but what we think that persons standing is. If we have reason to think the person might be a stray sheep then we should pray for them even if we are wrong. Praying for God's enemies is wrong. We must discern as far as possible who to pray for and who not to from the persons concerned.



No, but He does work His works through us. He involves us. We should be led by the Spirit in prayer or we should be general in praying for the things we know He wants us to have such as knowledge and Wisdom and so on. If you find yourself praying for more love more hospitality and so on then you can be sure you will get it because it was God that put the prayer into your mind so that He could bless you and get closer to you.



We should be led by the Spirit in prayer. God does tell us who to pray for but being told by God does not mean that we can know we are praying for the elect. I can think of reasons why God gets us to pray for reprobates, it could be God wants them shamed on Judgment Day for their thoughts of us.

RO 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

We don't need to get it right the Holy Spirit prays on our behalf and gets it right. We should use our prayers for selfish reasons. Ask for more and more of Him so that we become the people our Father will be proud of like He was of Job.



It makes us feel better. How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife? 1 Cor 7:16.

Praying or not doesn't change God's plan. The plan is being worked out. Unbelieving wifes and husbands are made holy and are in a priveledged position to hear and see the word of God in action. Since the non-Christian is loved then that love will express itself in pleas of mercy for the husband or wife of the Christian with a half promise, how do you know?. Love demands our prayers. Love is kind and wants the best for the objects of our love.



I will be interested in the response.



We do not need to give Him options, Jesus said, "Your will be done."

I think that's covered with "not my will, but thine" isn't it? Absolutely.

john.

John, great post, although that first paragraph could be taken wrong.

"There is a sin unto death, I do not say that you shall pray for it"

Do any of you know who has sinned unto death, and who has not? If not how shall you know whether to pray for it or not?

What I'm trying to say is that there's something intensly mystical about prayer. As John said, the Spirit leads us and "makes intercession for us according to the will of God".

Isn't it true for all of us that ordinarily, we just pray in hope that we are doing it right, saying the right things; but then at other times, we are "moved" to prayer in a specific, special way?

I believe this moving is in fact the leading of the Spirit that we all seek. There are some times that God is about to do something, and he's chosen you to be a part of it, to experience his power. I'm not talking any word-faith nonsense here. I'm talking about God working and allowing you to experience it through prayer.

Prayer is the closest thing we have to face-to-face fellowship with God.

So in the end, prayer is the way that God has chosen, at times, to accomplish His will. It is NOT the way we have decided to accomplish our own will through God's help (like a Jeanie in a bottle) - that kind of prayer is nothing but prayer to one's self.

 

[EdSutton]

:wavey: <--------------this is me

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:BangHead: <--------------this is me on calvinism

"This is your brain!; This is your brain on ...!" :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

May I humbly congratulate all the posters on this, a novel way to start a C/A thread.

And keep it going, as well!

Ed

 

[npetreley]

I need to find an emoticon with horns to show me on free-willism.

 

[EdSutton]

I need to find an emoticon with horns to show me on free-willism.

Bein' as ya' asked nicely:

Ed

 

[J.D.]

I think most of the people in this thread are careful about this, but I want to add a word of caution not to think or talk about prayer has having some innate mystical power.

The God to whom we pray has all power. If prayer is "effectual, effective, powerful," it is God who gives it effectiveness.

russell55 has it right, I think:

When we pray, we are asking God to use his power, not the power of our words. To imbue prayer with a mystical potency comes pretty close to the error of the Postive Confession movement, which holds that "you can have what you say."

Tom, when I was going over this thread earlier, I missed your post for some reason. Since I mentioned that "there is something intensely mystical about prayer" in my post, it looks like we have a disagreement. But the point of your post here is absolutely correct. The reason that "faith as a grain of mustard seed" is effective in removing mountains into the sea is because even the smallest faith that is planted directly in God's will, then that thing will come to pass. If God wants that mountain planted in the sea, then planted it will be.

Your use of the word mystical here seems to be in the sense that prayer is not an incantation whereby the power of God might be awakened by some magical formula of words. To this I completely agree.

When I use the word mystical I mean it the sense that there's something supernatural, spiritual, of God, about prayer. Perhaps my use of the word mystical is improper.