Radical?

[Luke2427]

The problem with many Christians today is not that they enjoy too many things at the expense of the Kingdom. It is that they don't enjoy things enough as children of the King.

We don't need more radical sacrifice as much as we need more rejoicing saints.
The greatest evangelical need of the hour may be for us to eat more, drink more and celebrate more.

"And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved."
Acts 2:46-47

"Then he said to them, “Go your way. Eat the fat and drink sweet wine and send portions to anyone who has nothing ready, for this day is holy to our Lord. And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength.”
Nehemiah 8:10

"For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,"
1 Timothy 4:4

"They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching AND TO FELLOWSHIP, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."
Acts 2:42

"A person can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in their own toil. This too, I see, is from the hand of God,"
Ecclesiastes 2:24

"So I commend the enjoyment of life, because there is nothing better for a person under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad. Then joy will accompany them in their toil all the days of the life God has given them under the sun."
Ecclesiastes 8:15

"And there you shall eat before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your households, in all that you undertake, in which the LORD your God has blessed you."
Deuteronomy 12:7

"Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice."
Deuteronomy 14:26

And these verses do not even scratch the surface of this important truth expounded throughout Scripture!

This truth is actually more radical than those ideas most greatly touted as radical in Christianity right now.

We actually ARE supposed to enjoy the goodness of God. Are we to give? CERTAINLY! Are we to witness? OF COURSE! Are we to work? MOST ASSUREDLY! Are a few of us called to remote jungles to die in squalor reaching the unreached? ABSOLUTELY!

But none of this changes the fact that the people of God in general are to be known for their love for eating, drinking and celebrating together. No one should be able to enjoy a good steak like a group of blessed Christians. No one should be able to relish a good glass of wine like the redeemed! No one should be able to match the happiness found among a gathering of God's thankful children who revel together in the blessings of life he has poured out upon them!

Could it be that this is the radical truth this generation needs most?

 

[Inspector Javert]

It may not be what we need "MOST"...
but it's pretty close.

We don't enjoy fellowship as we should....

But denominational barriers cut us down too.
One of the GREATEST errors of Christianity is the idea that we should all be aesthetics devoid of pleasure...

Unfortunately, that's an error which has manifested itself BOTH within the stodgy Calvinists and the often legalistic Arminians of the fold....

BOTH groups would better themselves by learning to enjoy the freedom, grace, and love....and I dare say, "lust for life" that the Scriptures point us towards...

but, too many things dissuade us.

Everything from an (sometimes Calvinistically centered) pre-occupation with a "Lordship Salvation" to an Arminianistically centered: pre-occupation with true "Sanctification"....
BOTH of which are the nasty sides of the same coin.

I don't think what you truly desire..(and I think I know what you mean here) is going to happen within the S.B.C....or for that matter, any Baptists.

It only happens within small pockets of people, and in secret, and not admitted to in the Church at large...

By way of example:
I'm a former I.F.B. Fundamentalist Arminian style Baptist......
But I married into a family of Presbyterian Calvinists who were also my bestest friends .....

They loved me, I loved them, and our greatest show of love towards one another was to buy the other party a bottle of Scotch and celebrate with one another while we both bickered about Theology, and poured one another a cool beverage at the same time.

I'm 35.........my wife was 19 when I married her.

My father in law helped her purchase a 21-year Glenlivet Scotch for us to share...so that we could bicker Theology together around it....good cigar assumed...

I have a wonderful relationship with them, but, they could no more introduce their Arminian son-in-law (an ordained Baptist Minister)... to their Presbyterian Church, as I could introduce them to my Church (an Arminian Baptist fold)....

Unfortunately, it isn't THEOLOGY which separates us as much as it is tradition....

And NEITHER SIDE will break on that.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You guys should turn to Catholism then. You can sin ....if that's what you want to call it...with impunity and say one prayer and your back in good graces with the lord. Ahhhh single malt scotch! :godisgood:

 

[Luke2427]

You guys should turn to Catholism then. You can sin ....if that's what you want to call it...with impunity and say one prayer and your back in good graces with the lord. Ahhhh single malt scotch! :godisgood:

Baptists are worse than Catholics. At least with Catholics they have to confess.

And eating and drinking are certainly not sin.

 

[Luke2427]

It may not be what we need "MOST"...
but it's pretty close.

We don't enjoy fellowship as we should....

But denominational barriers cut us down too.
One of the GREATEST errors of Christianity is the idea that we should all be aesthetics devoid of pleasure...

Unfortunately, that's an error which has manifested itself BOTH within the stodgy Calvinists and the often legalistic Arminians of the fold....

BOTH groups would better themselves by learning to enjoy the freedom, grace, and love....and I dare say, "lust for life" that the Scriptures point us towards...

but, too many things dissuade us.

Everything from an (sometimes Calvinistically centered) pre-occupation with a "Lordship Salvation" to an Arminianistically centered: pre-occupation with true "Sanctification"....
BOTH of which are the nasty sides of the same coin.

I don't think what you truly desire..(and I think I know what you mean here) is going to happen within the S.B.C....or for that matter, any Baptists.

It only happens within small pockets of people, and in secret, and not admitted to in the Church at large...

By way of example:
I'm a former I.F.B. Fundamentalist Arminian style Baptist......
But I married into a family of Presbyterian Calvinists who were also my bestest friends .....

They loved me, I loved them, and our greatest show of love towards one another was to buy the other party a bottle of Scotch and celebrate with one another while we both bickered about Theology, and poured one another a cool beverage at the same time.

I'm 35.........my wife was 19 when I married her.

My father in law helped her purchase a 21-year Glenlivet Scotch for us to share...so that we could bicker Theology together around it....good cigar assumed...

I have a wonderful relationship with them, but, they could no more introduce their Arminian son-in-law (an ordained Baptist Minister)... to their Presbyterian Church, as I could introduce them to my Church (an Arminian Baptist fold)....

Unfortunately, it isn't THEOLOGY which separates us as much as it is tradition....

And NEITHER SIDE will break on that.

[/QUOTE]

Aestheticism has been one of the greatest problems that Christianity has battled since its moorings. The Pharisees with their legalism accused Jesus of being a drunkard and a glutton because he ate and drank, then the gnostic with their dualism and now, as you have aptly pointed out, Calvinists with a perverted idea of Lordship salvation and Arminians with their Wesleyan ideas of holiness and entire sanctification.

Honestly, I think the Radical crowd, though I love them dearly and respect their motives, have embraced a form of gnosticism. I say a form because they certainly are not Gnostics. But they do seem to think that physical pleasure this side of eternity should be severely limited.

The Bible teaches the opposite. Revel in the goodness of God which most assuredly includes physical blessings (food, drink, sex, laughter, comradery, leisure, entertainment, celebration, etc...) but do it responsibly and with a thankful heart knowing from whence all good things come. This should make one love God more, obey his commandments more faithfully and long to fulfill his commission more deeply.

 

[Luke2427]

I am surprised that there are no Platt and Piper fans willing to contest my ideas. I am equally surprised that there are no independent or primitive baptists who'll condemn me as a hedonist.

 

[just-want-peace]

All I'll say is that I'm convinced that God has a whale of a sense of humor, and anyone who loves humor has got to have a zest for life.
Yes, this is me, but still I'm anxiously awaiting that trumpet call from the blue!!!!:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[kyredneck]

I am surprised that there are no Platt and Piper fans willing to contest my ideas. I am equally surprised that there are no independent or primitive baptists who'll condemn me as a hedonist.

Hedonist, it's Primitive, not primitive.

 

[Van]

Rejoicing in the midst of travail is something I have not mastered. If we look at how the body of Christ is fractured, with those following Calvin, and Luther, and whoever, we have a hard time finding that "unity of the Spirit" we all are supposed to exude.

If we made a count, the number of threads pointing to the faults of others such as the KJVO folks, or the Calvinists, or the Arminians, we would see the enemy and he is us. Hard to rejoice with know-it-all blowhards, who would pick fly poo out of pepper to find fault with others.

My dad, in the final year of his life, rejoiced in all things, because, I believe, he had that blessed assurance Jesus is mine.

 

[kyredneck]

<--------------->

 

[InTheLight]

But none of this changes the fact that the people of God in general are to be known for their love for eating, drinking and celebrating together.

So, Dude, party on, man!

No, this is not a radical truth that the church is missing out on. Sheesh.

 

[evangelist6589]

Baptists are worse than Catholics. At least with Catholics they have to confess.



And eating and drinking are certainly not sin.

Luke you broad brush allot.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke you broad brush allot.

When you speak of something as broad as baptists (there are millions of them) and Catholics (there are about a BILLION of them) you have to broad brush.

You have to speak in general and hope that your readers have the intelligence to understand that that is what ANYBODY does who speaks of so broad a topic.

Why don't you make an argument or a counter-argument?

 

[Luke2427]

So, Dude, party on, man!

No, this is not a radical truth that the church is missing out on. Sheesh.

I think it is.

I think most Christians do enjoy things that are ok to enjoy but they think it is not ok to enjoy them, so, for them, it is sin. So they feel guilty and dirty and unuseable. They don't feel holy enough or dedicated enough. They can't keep the standards so they don't try.

The shame is that it shouldn't be sin and preachers shouldn't be telling them that it is.

There is a reason God does not help people live up to certain standards. Because he has no desire for them to live up to those standards due to the fact that they are not His standards.

The radical truth is revealed in the passages I shared and many more like them.

With a kingdom first mindset, enjoy the things God has given you to enjoy. This is the life that God blesses.