Rapture: hocus-pocus

[wopik]

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death" (Revelation 12:7-11).

These are God's own converted, chosen, saintly people! They are members of His church!

This great persecution which follows Satan being cast back down out of heaven into the earth IS the Great Tribulation!

Notice that the saints overcome Satan and his persecutions "by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death" (Revelation 12:11).

This is not describing a secret "snatching away" of God's people to some remote wilderness, or up into heaven, but describing God's people right in the midst of the great events talking place on the earth; describing God's people as actively witnessing and warning the nations of this world, and therefore bringing hatred and persecution upon themselves.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
But join Jack Van Impe et al who try to predict such?

Jack Van Impe predicts the rapture of 2018.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by freeatlast:
The rapture is not about Christ coming in secret or openly. The rapture is about the church leaving. Christ does the calling and we leave.

Amen to that!

 

[Ed Edwards]

I'm seeing a lot of "early Christians".
Do the feelings, opinions, and knowledge
that is not documented - does that
superceede what the Bible says? I don't
think so.

Interesting how so much is known about
un-documents feelings and knowlege of "early
church" and so little about the time
in which we live: the early 21st
century (2001-2100).

1. "The wild" can only support at most 1% of the population that a developed area
can support. Only 20% of the world is
left wild. Using the current world
peopulation of 6,000 million, the wild
places can only support 12 million people.
That is 1 in 500. For you to live
"in the wild", 499 of your neighbors must
die.

2. Mankind now has the capability to
do much worse to themselves than is
predicted in Revelation. Any give hour
the mankind can delete all life from
the earth. It used to be 30 minutes, but
now the coordinates of the targets
have to be loaded before they can
be launched.
Before 1965 i thought how great it would
be that God would come down an wup all
the bad earth guys. After 1965 I realse,
that Matthew 24:21-22a means that
God must interfer in the affairs of
mankind to keep men from destorying
themselves.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Bible never saying that the Church will leave earth. Rapture is for call us to be gathering together to MEEEEEEET Christ in the air when Christ shall COME to earth to judge all nations of the earth.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
I want to tell you one more verse - Matt. 24:19 -"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, AND of the Son, AND of the Holy Ghost."

Does that mean we have THREE Gods????

You misunderstand what this verse means.

Matt. 24:19 -"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

Look at one word, "name." This verse did not say, "names"

Name of...and of...and of... That means one name of the Trinity.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

I will reply to you tomorrow. Because I have to work now -3rd shift.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Askjo,

You are correct the Bible teaches trinity. I am trying to telling Ed because of 'and' . He separate events of Matt 24:30 & 31 into different events, and he separate 2 Thess. 2:1 into two events. He separates Titus 2:13 into two different events.

I will discuss on that. I HAVE TO GO to work now. Save news talk tomorrow
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Askjo,

You are correct the Bible teaches trinity. I am trying to telling Ed because of 'and' . He separate events of Matt 24:30 & 31 into different events, and he separate 2 Thess. 2:1 into two events. He separates Titus 2:13 into two different events.

Yep, here is what i teach:

\o/ Glory to the Lord \o/

\o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/

2 Thessalonians 2:1 (KJV1873):
Now we beseech you, brethren,
by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him,

Two events mentioned here:
1) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
2) our gathering together unto him

Titus 2:13 (KJV1873):
Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing of the great God
and our Saviour Jesus Christ

Two events mentioned here:
1) blessed hope
2) the glorious appearing of the great God
and our Saviour Jesus Christ

These two events are mentioned seperately
throughout the Bible. The Rapture, which
was a mystery in the O.T. is now mentioned
in the N.T.

Rapture Passages (the gathering):

Matthew 24:31-44
Mark 13
Luke 21
John 14:1-3
Romans 8:19
1 Corinthians 1:7-8, 15:51-53, 16:22
Philippians 3:20-21, 4:5
Colossians 3:4
1 Thessalonians 1:10, 2:19, 4:13-18, 5:9,23
2 Thessalonians 1:7, 2:1, 2:3
1 Timothy 6:14
2 Timothy 4:1,8
Hebrews 9:28
1 Peter 1:7,13, 5:4
1 John 2:28-3:2
Jude 1:21
Revelation 2:25

Second Advent Passages
(Jesus comes again in power and glory):

Daniel 2:44-45, 7:9-14, 12:1-3
Zechariah 12:10, 14:1-15
Matthew 13:41
Matthew 24:15-30, 26:64
Mark 13
Luke 21
Acts 1:9-11, 3:19-21
1 Thessalonians 3:13
2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, 2:8
1 Peter 4:12-131
2 Peter 3:1-14
Jude 1:14-15
Revelation 4-19

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

I have few questions for you.

You believe there are two events - Matt 24:30,31; 2 Thess. 2:1; and Titus 2:13.

Does the between Matt 24:30 and 31 show of the GAP time between 7 years?

Does 2 Thess. 2:1 shows there is a GAP time between the coming of the Lord and our gathering unto him into 7 years?

Does Titus 2:13 shows there is a GAP time between blessed hope and the glorious appearing into 7 years?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Ed,

I have few questions for you.

You believe there are two events - Matt 24:30,31; 2 Thess. 2:1; and Titus 2:13.

Does the between Matt 24:30 and 31 show of the GAP time between 7 years?

Does 2 Thess. 2:1 shows there is a GAP time between the coming of the Lord and our gathering unto him into 7 years?

Does Titus 2:13 shows there is a GAP time between blessed hope and the glorious appearing into 7 years?

No.

The gap timing is shown in Daniel and Revelation.

Ten years ago, people tell me why is
pretribulation rapture not in Revelation.
I had no answer for awile but
Lord lets me see it by type in Revelation 4:1

4 years ago, people tell me why is
Jesus not ever talk about pretrubulation
rapture? I have no answer for awile until
my preacher talks (on another matter) about
the polysyndeton "and". Teachers tell me:
never start a sentence with "and". But
then i read Genesis chapter 1 that has
lots of verses (sentences) starting with
"and", the polysyndeton "and".

The Hebrews and the Greeks had no outlining
method. They start every new add-on
detail with another "and" (also "but"
and "then". So the Lord Helped me see
that in the Mount Olivet Discourse that
the three questions in Matthew 24:3
are the key to understanding the
prophecies of Matthew 24 and 25. Matthew
25 is mostly parables except the last
part which tells about the sheep and
goat nations judgement when Jesus gets
back to destroy the Antichrist.

Matthew 24:3 (nKJV):
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
ask three questions:

(in the order asked):
1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
2. What is the sign of His coming?
3. What is the sign of the end of age?

Jesus answers these questions in
Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
some parables.

Here are the answers of Jesus in the
order the questions were asked:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

Here is a summary of the answers
in the order in which events will occur:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Soon, it was in 70AD

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
No signs preceeding the end of the age

2. What is the sign of His coming?
The Sign of His coming will be the
Tribulation period.

Recall the Greek language in which this
Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
So many ands, buts, and other connectors
give the outline. I believe the major
outline to be:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
Rapture/resurrection which ends the
current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
etc&gt

Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes all of the
church age even up to this time.
Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Askjo,

You are correct the Bible teaches trinity. I am trying to telling Ed because of 'and' . He separate events of Matt 24:30 & 31 into different events, and he separate 2 Thess. 2:1 into two events. He separates Titus 2:13 into two different events.

I will discuss on that. I HAVE TO GO to work now. Save news talk tomorrow
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

There seem to be four kinds of "and" in
prophetic writings:

1. the polysyndeton "and" used instead
of an outline as we might use

2. the equal-level set connector "and"

3. the subordianate set connector "and"

4. the equal member sets connector "and"

Titus 2:13 (nKJV):
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

the first "and" connects the two
independant events in a
2. the equal-level set connector "and"
manner. The two events are equal in level
and of a different sort. Being events,
they are two events. Some quick
posties note that the Bible says these
two seperate, unique, independant events
happen the same 24-hour day.
But pretribs believe them to happen
seven years apart (some pretribs say
3½-years).

The second "and" is of the type:
4. the equal member sets connector "and"
connecting two sets that are totally
identical:
1. our great God
2. our ... Savior Jesus Christ

Of course the Bible does not say
definatively which "and" is being used.
For example, in Matthew 24:4-44 there
are lots of "and"s some of each of
the four types.

So when i break up the questions of
the disciples in Matthew 24:3 and the
major outline of Matthew 24:4-44 i get:

When will the temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14
What is the sign of the Second Advent?
Matthew 24:15-30
What is the sign of the end of the age?
Matthew 24:31-44

My Holy Spirit given understanding
of Bible prophecy is consistant,
has no holes (leftover prophecies
that cannot be explained), and is hopeful.

The two brands of post-tribulation
belief are inconsistant (especially
between the two), have holes (leftover
prophecies that can't be explained),
and is hopeless.

There are six Billion people on the
earth. The wildes can only support about
20 million people. There are 2,000 million
people that someone says they are
Christian. There are going to be
a lot of people die in the Tribulation.
Death is and end to tribulation (the condition)
for those in Christ.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

What if we are taken with the Lord according to our doctrinal stand on the Rapture?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Plain Old Bill:
What if we are taken with the Lord according to our doctrinal stand on the Rapture?

Then pretribs will be gone,
postribs will be in a mess, and
the Mystic Christians are in heaven already

 

[DeafPosttrib]

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive AND reamin unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shoutm with the voice of the archangel, AND with the trump of God: ANDthe dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive AND remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: AND so shall we ever be with the Lord." - 1 Thess, 4:15-17.

Does Paul saying there shall be five comings???

"I am the way, the truth, AND the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." - John 14:6, does that mean 'life' is excluded from Jesus' character?

"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, AND the water, AND the blood: AND thse three agree in one."

Does, that mean there are three different Gods, or persons? - context of 1 John 5:6-8 talk about trinity.

Later, I will show you about the English and grammar rule about word - 'and'.

By the way, your logical on interpretin gthe verses are make no sense to me. I do not agree with your interpreting. Because you use in your own logical toooooooo much.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

'And' is always defined - 'together' or 'connect with'. Simple.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive AND reamin unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shoutm with the voice of the archangel, AND with the trump of God: ANDthe dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive AND remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: AND so shall we ever be with the Lord." - 1 Thess, 4:15-17.

Does Paul saying there shall be five comings???

God does not ask us to take
our mind off when we read the scripture.
BTW, the way you judge people you shall
be judged also. You are trying to figure
out what these scriptures mean. You have
added BOLDING to the scriptures. tisk :0 tisk

Come on Bro. we are having a serious
discussion and you ask a silly question
of the scripture

DeafPosttrib: "Later, I will show you about the English and grammar rule about word - 'and'. "

Thank you. I don't see why you should inject facts into the discussion now

DeafPosttrib: "By the way, your logical on interpretin gthe verses are make no sense to me. I do not agree with your interpreting. Because you use in your own logical toooooooo much."

Thank you for your complement.
Much better that i should study the
scripture for myself than sign
like a monkey.

(Ed explains the similie:
a monkey signs whatever you sign,
the monkey repeats what signs
he has seen. His signs make no sense.
A hearer simile would be: "talk like a
parrot.)

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Ed,

'And' is always defined - 'together' or 'connect with'. Simple.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

Why then does
my dictionary list 7 meanings of "and"?

Which of the 16 adjective or 4 noun
meanings of "simple" do you intend here?

 

[R. Charles Blair]

Brother Ed - I agree wholeheartedly that we are seeing a bit too much of "early Christians" and not enough Scripture. Is it also possible that we are seeing a bit too much of "recent Christians" and their charts, and not enough Scipture? For example, Matthew 11 and 12, and John 5? Best- Charles - Rom. 88

 

[brumleyj]

i did not see rebuilt temple and millenual temple from bible.

please show me one verse about reubilt temple from bible?


brumleyj
ps 27:1
amem