re: 3x church thread

[standingfirminChrist]

Do you call your pastor to let him know when something is wrong?
Are you that immature that your feelings would get hurt?
If someone calls, and needs me, I am there...

They know that.

But if someone wants to get mad at the preacher and pout to another church because they failed to contact me when they needed me... well, goodbye... I am training disciples, not legalistic robots, that get their feelings hurt all the time....

This is the problem the previous generation left us pastors today... they babied their Christians.. and kept them babes.. .now we have to deal with it. It is time to grow up, and be a christian. We don't have time to go around and round up the Christians.. The members know they need to be there. And if there is a problem, they need to contact the pastor, or deacons and we will certainly help.

If you don't want to grow, I can't make you. God will deal with you.
And when He does, we will be there with open arms... Just like the father in the prodigal son parable...

This is why legalism produces babies, and grace produces disciples.

Disciples that don't care when people are not in the house of God? Disciples who don't want to strengthen the weaker brethren?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

throwing a lot of stones boss

how many services have you missed? whats your excuse?
i go to a young church that has a lease on a building for sunday mornings only...
we meet in homes on wednesday nights. i dont get to go on wednesdays because of a previous work contract.
please tell me what to do.

~apparently lost in nc

In the last 19 years, I have only missed 4 services. Two of those services, I was in the hospital. the other two, I was home sick.

And people from the Church cared so much that they called me. I thank God for the caring Churches I pastored and attended.

As far as your missing Church for work, I would say pray and ask God to open doors for another job that will free up your Wednesday evenings. Talk to other Church members asking them of possibilities as far as employment. I know people who have quit their jobs, one in Greensboro, NC because the boss demanded he work both Sundays and Wednesdays. God opened doors for a better paying job with Sundays and Wednesdays free for worship.

 

[tinytim]

no.. disciples that know christ, grow spiritually, and go win others through their ministries....

Church is not about attendance... it is about BEING a Christian...
You are too numbers driven.

Church is just not about church meetings.. it is being church all the time, 24/7. But you are showing the failures of the previous generation...

They made it a numbers game.. from competing over how many souls were won in a week to how many bible chapters were read to which SS class was bigger to how many you can pile in your volkswagon... I mean accord... since the church were all in one accord.... lol

Anyway, gotta go... believe it or not, I've got to go visit a potential member... lol

 

[tinytim]

In the last 19 years, I have only missed 4 services. Two of those services, I was in the hospital. the other two, I was home sick.

And people from the Church cared so much that they called me. I thank God for the caring Churches I pastored and attended.

And in all that time you have not learned how to be a gracious christian, but a legalist.

 

[dan e.]

I didn't know God had a house??? All along I thought I was the temple of God!! I'm crazy!!!!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Do you call your pastor to let him know when something is wrong?
Are you that immature that your feelings would get hurt?

Are you that immature that your feelings would be hurt when someone cares enough to check on you two days after you missed service?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

And in all that time you have not learned how to be a gracious christian, but a legalist.

Obeying and preaching the commands of the Bible is not being a legalist, tim.

 

[dan e.]

all the name calling......sheesh!

 

[tinytim]

Yeah... sorry, I shouldn't have called you a legalist...
A legalist believes that you can make God love you more by doing good.

You have not said this...
So SFIC, please forgive me.

I really gotta go now....

 

[Rufus_1611]

Do you call your pastor to let him know when something is wrong?
Are you that immature that your feelings would get hurt?
If someone calls, and needs me, I am there...

They know that.

But if someone wants to get mad at the preacher and pout to another church because they failed to contact me when they needed me... well, goodbye... I am training disciples, not legalistic robots, that get their feelings hurt all the time....

This is the problem the previous generation left us pastors today... they babied their Christians.. and kept them babes.. .now we have to deal with it. It is time to grow up, and be a christian. We don't have time to go around and round up the Christians.. The members know they need to be there. And if there is a problem, they need to contact the pastor, or deacons and we will certainly help.

If you don't want to grow, I can't make you. God will deal with you.
And when He does, we will be there with open arms... Just like the father in the prodigal son parable...

This is why legalism produces babies, and grace produces disciples.

Umm ...These two threads started because someone expressed frustration at their preacher and "pouted" outside the local fellowship because the preacher told the congregation to come to church and accused the congregation of being lukewarm if they didn't. You have aligned yourself against the pastor that did this and favored the murmurer. Now when someone leaves the church and you don't contact them for three weeks, then you're calling them babes etc, because they got their feelings hurt when you didn't call? Is your summary position on this issue that people who complain about pastors who exhort the people to come to church are right to do so, but people who complain when the pastor (or other church servant) doesn't call them after a 3 week absence (9 services) are babes?

As to you not having time to round up Christians...Is not the role of a pastor equated to the role of a shepherd and are not the people equated to lambs or sheep? Is it proper for a shepherd to say I don't have time to care for my sheep? Is it proper for a shepherd to say to a lamb "if you get mad at me and pout...well, goodbye."?

 

[JDale]

To say the least, you have a rather novel interpretation of Rom. 13:1, but I guess that is possible when any verse is taken out of context. That passage in context is referring to civil government, according to every interpretation I've ever heard, and I agree. Look at verse six. Since when does the church collect taxes? And I disagree that 'pastor' is a "church office', in the first place, as I have stated many times before on this board. It is a spiritual gift, and is to be exercised at the discretion of the "elders", who are the ones who are to feed the flock. Have you ever noticed that elders is always plural when referring to a church, in Scripture? Maybe that keeps any one person from becoming some "Big Behuna", just maybe, in the church.

Christ is the head of the head of the church. I'm pretty sure He did not delegate that authority to any of us.

Paul never claimed eldership, although he claimed to be both an apostle and a deacon, and Peter, the one who was goven the "keys to the kingdom of heaven", said he was a "co-presbyter", literally, in his epistle, not even claiming his apostleship, in the context, for that was also a spiritual gift, just like that of pastor. But claiming the spiritual gift, as opposed to making it an office doesn't give the same ability to 'lord something over the flock', now does it?

Ed

Your analysis is generally correct. However, A Pastor, by virtue of his office, IS an "Elder." The Greek words poimen(interpreted "Shepherd" or "Pastor"), episkopos (interpreted "Bishop" or "overseer") and presbuteros (interpreted "Elder") ALL appear in reference to those who serve in the local body (Acts 20:20-28; I Peter 5:1-5). Therefore, those who are "gifted" (or who are "gifts" to the Local body) as described in Ephesians 4:11-16, would have been -- and should be -- considered Elders in Local Churches.

JDale

 

[tinytim]

Umm ...These two threads started because someone expressed frustration at their preacher and "pouted" outside the local fellowship because the preacher told the congregation to come to church and accused the congregation of being lukewarm if they didn't. You have aligned yourself against the pastor that did this and favored the murmurer. Now when someone leaves the church and you don't contact them for three weeks, then you're calling them babes etc, because they got their feelings hurt when you didn't call? Is your summary position on this issue that people who complain about pastors who exhort the people to come to church are right to do so, but people who complain when the pastor (or other church servant) doesn't call them after a 3 week absence (9 services) are babes?

As to you not having time to round up Christians...Is not the role of a pastor equated to the role of a shepherd and are not the people equated to lambs or sheep? Is it proper for a shepherd to say I don't have time to care for my sheep? Is it proper for a shepherd to say to a lamb "if you get mad at me and pout...well, goodbye."?

Thanks Rufus.. you have given me something to think about...
In the other thread, I was told that since I went when a lamb called out for help, I was not being a good pastor.. now If I wait to see if the lamb really needs me, I am not being a good pastor....

OK...

One more thing... the 3 week "rule" is not hard and fast.. as all good pastors know there are some you can expect there every Sunday, and there are those that just won't come every Sunday, they may only show up 1 or 2 Sundays a month....

The 3 week rule applies to the 1-2 Sunday a month attenders...
Now if Mr J____ would miss any Sunday, we would probably send someone to his house to check to see if he is all right, during service!

If SFIC was in my church, and if he was as faithful as he says he is, then I would probably call him that afternoon to see if there was something wrong....

As a matter of fact, a couple weeks ago, a person didn't show up, and I called to find out why, 5 minutes before service started...

So you see, I shouldn't have called all of them babies... but some do need to grow up... Remember the song "excuses" some will find anything wrong with their pastor they can... "Why, he didn't even shake my hand!"
Those types are still baby Christians, and need to grow up... and I guess it is my job to baby sit to some degree... but it drives me nuts when a person that has been saved for 20 yrs is still a baby in Christ. Somewhere along the line, they have to take the initiative to grow up.


It is all about knowing your sheep.

Maybe I didn't explain myself a while ago... but the 3 week rule applies to those that are not regular attenders anyway. IOWS I can almost tell you when some are not going to be there, and when they are... When they are not there when I expect them there, I get worried, and check on them...


I have even checked on members here on BB when they haven't been on for a long time... I remember one time SFIC had not been on, and I PMed Linda to see if anything was wrong....

See I am caring... even for those that don't agree with me.
But I never call them lazy Christians, or put them down for not being there 3 times a week...

A pastor should never verbally abuse his sheep. Rebuke, yes, but never abuse.

Thanks Rufus.. you stopped me in my tracks and made me think...
And you did it nicely...

Thanks.

BTW, after tomorrow, I will not be on BB until Sunday. I am preaching a revival at my home church, and where i will be staying has no internet access.... Just in case someone worries about me missing around here...:laugh: :wavey:

 

[rbell]

BTW, after tomorrow, I will not be on BB until Sunday. I am preaching a revival at my home church, and where i will be staying has no internet access.... Just in case someone worries about me missing around here...:laugh: :wavey:

I wouldn't dare call you until you missed three weeks here.

:laugh:

 

[webdog]

You should be expecting a call or visit on Saturday

 

[tinytim]

I wouldn't dare call you until you missed three weeks here.

:laugh:

Thanks I feel the love....

For some, it would be gooood riddance.

 

[Jonathan]

Umm ...These two threads started because someone expressed frustration at their preacher and "pouted" outside the local fellowship because the preacher told the congregation to come to church and accused the congregation of being lukewarm if they didn't.

No. This thread started because the other thread drifted away from the specifics brought up by the first poster. In all of the posts in both threads, no one has supported the contention that one should be called a casual Christian, a fence straddler, or luke warm for not attending 3 services per week.

 

[jshurley04]

Legalism

HBSMN has trodded into the arena of legalism.

TRODDED! Are you kidding me, it seems as if he lives there. It seems to be all he knows. :laugh: I pray that restraints of legalism can be lifted from both him and the untold number of other Christ-followers that are bound by this attack of Satan.

As a pastor, I encourage my people to attend every activity. But I also understand physical limitations and work schedules. IF by coming to a mid week service someone is so physically beat down that on Thursday and Friday they risk loosing their job because they are not getting enough rest due to Prayer service and visitation keeping them up later than normal then they need to stay home and go to bed. They cannot be a good testimony of being a Christ-Follower if they are a liability at work. God understands that the culture in which we live does not allow for some to attend every time the doors are opened.

There is an absolut difference between those that desire to attend but cannot and those that simply do not desire to attend. I suspect the referenced comments refer to those that simply do not desire to attend.

Don't get twisted over everything your pastor says, he is just doing his best to keep those that are active, active and thost that are not active to get active. Sometimes we have to get a little out there to get those off of the stump that really need to move.

 

[gb93433]

Are you that immature that your feelings would be hurt when someone cares enough to check on you two days after you missed service?

If my pastor showed up unannounced I would think he had nothing better to do. I would encourage him to start a Bible study with about 20 people in the community. I would also encourage him to start knocking on doors in the community. I do not need my pastor to show up at my home to make me feel good. If he were to show up most likely he would be taking me away from my studies and time I should be spending with people I am discipling and my family.

However, if he showed up to mow my lawn that would be great because I have more lawn than I like to mow.

 

[gb93433]

You should be expecting a call or visit on Saturday.

At one church I pastored I had a lady started a ministry with a group of elderly ladies who periodically cleaned the homes of those who could not clean their own. I picked a neat freak to start that and those ladies thanked me for doing that. There were some other ladies who called the elderly every day to check on them and also made sure they got to church.

In one case a neighbor noticed the ladies coming periodically to clean the home of their neighbor and knew that someone called each day. The neighbor started coming to church because of what she saw as people caring for one another. The lady who started calling on the elderly was a young person who had cared for her grandmother earlier in life.

In that same church we started having the youth help the elderly do things such as mow their lawns and trim their bushes. The youth need to learn to care for the elderly who once cared for the youth. During that time the youth group grew more than they had ever seen. Instead of hugging each other they became a group of youth who learned to love people in tangible ways.

Calls on Saturday only would not have been enough. In one case a lady called and received no answer. She phone the police and the lady died within the last 24 hours. In another case a lady had fallen down and was unable to get up. She was taken care of when her contact person did not hear her voice on the phone when she called. She found the lady lying on the floor. The lady claimed she had been there all night. Imagine what it would have been like for the lady had nobody called each day.

We had so many ministries going on in the community that it would have been impossible for me to attend to anyone like their close friends did. In one month alone I had eight funerals.

 

[pinoybaptist]

At one church I pastored I had a lady started a ministry with a group of elderly ladies who periodically cleaned the homes of those who could not clean their own. I picked a neat freak to start that and those ladies thanked me for doing that. There were some other ladies who called the elderly every day to check on them and also made sure they got to church.

In one case a neighbor noticed the ladies coming periodically to clean the home of their neighbor and knew that someone called each day. The neighbor started coming to church because of what she saw as people caring for one another. The lady who started calling on the elderly was a young person who had cared for her grandmother earlier in life.

In that same church we started having the youth help the elderly do things such as mow their lawns and trim their bushes. The youth need to learn to care for the elderly who once cared for the youth. During that time the youth group grew more than they had ever seen. Instead of hugging each other they became a group of youth who learned to love people in tangible ways.

Calls on Saturday only would not have been enough. In one case a lady called and received no answer. She phone the police and the lady died within the last 24 hours. In another case a lady had fallen down and was unable to get up. She was taken care of when her contact person did not hear her voice on the phone when she called. She found the lady lying on the floor. The lady claimed she had been there all night. Imagine what it would have been like for the lady had nobody called each day.

We had so many ministries going on in the community that it would have been impossible for me to attend to anyone like their close friends did. In one month alone I had eight funerals.

:thumbs:

hats off to them, bro.