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Real Christianity

Psalty

Active Member
Hey there, everyone,

I wanted to start a thread on “Real Christianity”. I am not to far away from 50 years old and I’ve been mulling this issue over. I think many on this board have spent a significant amount of their mental capacity thinking about what is true and what is right with regards to Christ and how to worship him and think rightly about him (and I am one of them!). I wanted this thread to focus on some of your journey on where you started and what you believe is most important for what you would consider being a “real Christian”.

I grew up with a charismatic background and a bounced around quite a bit within the Independent non-denominational groups of churches with much more of a Baptist like focus (hence what drew me to these boards! Sadly, that is not enough to post on some of the cool threads on scripture that I see in the Baptist-only section :D).

As I’ve spent time really looking deeply into the Restoration Movement, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Protestantism and Calvinism, some Catholicism, and the fact that every single one of these groups of churches that I’ve mentioned have an incredible variety of disagreements even within themselves, many to the point of declaring Anathama!, it’s made me really stop and consider who is a real Christian.

I could talk about the theological beliefs here and all sorts of things like that which of course are important, but as I continue to meditate on the gospels, especially Luke and Acts over the last three years, that it really seems to me that the early Christians were focused on being as much like Christ as they could. I would bet 90% of them don’t talk about theology and doctrine things like we do. As I’ve read the New Testament over these last years, it really seems to me that the point of all of the teaching is to get people to live their lives like Jesus. It seems that many of us think that we have to have perfect understanding of how forgiveness actually works, or how the Trinity actually relates to each other, or how do you understand exactly what is going on at baptism, etc. etc.

I wonder how many things somebody could get wrong about Jesus and not have the correct knowledge, but still be found in him?

I keep coming back to the trees and the fruit and that you will know them by their fruit and that the Lord will know you are His by if you have built on the foundation of his words (Luke 6). Why are so many current day Christians in America, so focused on ethereal understandings of how spiritual things functionally work behind the scenes, when Jesus says that he will judge us based on what our life looks like with how we live it for him?

Anyway, that sort of my two cents on the subject. I definitely love mulling over theological issues, but I’m not convinced that beyond the basics of the things summarized in the apostles‘s creed you have to understand how everything works to be in Christ. I wonder if as many people that argue on twitter are devoting their lives to prayer, giving to the poor, feeding the hungry, loving and sharing with fellow Christians, and sharing Jesus with people they don’t know.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Romans 3:10, As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: . . . .

Romans 3:23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; . . . .

Romans 5:12, Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: . . . .

Romans 6:23, For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 5:8, But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:13-14, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? . . . .

Revelation 3:20, Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, . . . .

1 John 5:1, Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . .
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
Hey there, everyone,

I wanted to start a thread on “Real Christianity”. I am not to far away from 50 years old and I’ve been mulling this issue over. I think many on this board have spent a significant amount of their mental capacity thinking about what is true and what is right with regards to Christ and how to worship him and think rightly about him (and I am one of them!). I wanted this thread to focus on some of your journey on where you started and what you believe is most important for what you would consider being a “real Christian”.

I grew up with a charismatic background and a bounced around quite a bit within the Independent non-denominational groups of churches with much more of a Baptist like focus (hence what drew me to these boards! Sadly, that is not enough to post on some of the cool threads on scripture that I see in the Baptist-only section :D).

As I’ve spent time really looking deeply into the Restoration Movement, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Protestantism and Calvinism, some Catholicism, and the fact that every single one of these groups of churches that I’ve mentioned have an incredible variety of disagreements even within themselves, many to the point of declaring Anathama!, it’s made me really stop and consider who is a real Christian.

I could talk about the theological beliefs here and all sorts of things like that which of course are important, but as I continue to meditate on the gospels, especially Luke and Acts over the last three years, that it really seems to me that the early Christians were focused on being as much like Christ as they could. I would bet 90% of them don’t talk about theology and doctrine things like we do. As I’ve read the New Testament over these last years, it really seems to me that the point of all of the teaching is to get people to live their lives like Jesus. It seems that many of us think that we have to have perfect understanding of how forgiveness actually works, or how the Trinity actually relates to each other, or how do you understand exactly what is going on at baptism, etc. etc.

I wonder how many things somebody could get wrong about Jesus and not have the correct knowledge, but still be found in him?

I keep coming back to the trees and the fruit and that you will know them by their fruit and that the Lord will know you are His by if you have built on the foundation of his words (Luke 6). Why are so many current day Christians in America, so focused on ethereal understandings of how spiritual things functionally work behind the scenes, when Jesus says that he will judge us based on what our life looks like with how we live it for him?

Anyway, that sort of my two cents on the subject. I definitely love mulling over theological issues, but I’m not convinced that beyond the basics of the things summarized in the apostles‘s creed you have to understand how everything works to be in Christ. I wonder if as many people that argue on twitter are devoting their lives to prayer, giving to the poor, feeding the hungry, loving and sharing with fellow Christians, and sharing Jesus with people they don’t know.
We will be judged by our deeds, not our creeds.

Some people love to sin by being quarrelsome and arguing. They even get hatefully angry over spiritual topics, slinging personal attacks and abrasive insults. In history, people have been killed for disagreeing with establishment teachings and practices.

God is the only one who can judge what all the correct doctrines are and who is a real Christian.

Of course, certain doctrines are essential for authentic Christian faith.

Imitating Christ (turning the other cheek, helping the poor, avoiding gluttony, memorizing scriptures, not getting drunk, not being selfish, not stealing or coveting, abstaining from dirty thoughts and fornication, honoring parents, obeying bosses, not worrying, etc.) is important, but one must also believe 1. Jesus is the Messiah and is God manifested physically in the flesh, 2. He died for your sins, 3. God raised Him from the dead.

According to scripture, as far as I can determine, these are the basic mandatory beliefs.

A person could belong to a church that holds to a strange version of Christianity, and still be saved. It is rather mysterious.

1 John 2

3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands.

4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:

6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.


1 John 3

9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.


John 13:35

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
 
Last edited:

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Hey there, everyone,

I wanted to start a thread on “Real Christianity”. I am not to far away from 50 years old and I’ve been mulling this issue over. I think many on this board have spent a significant amount of their mental capacity thinking about what is true and what is right with regards to Christ and how to worship him and think rightly about him (and I am one of them!). I wanted this thread to focus on some of your journey on where you started and what you believe is most important for what you would consider being a “real Christian”.

I grew up with a charismatic background and a bounced around quite a bit within the Independent non-denominational groups of churches with much more of a Baptist like focus (hence what drew me to these boards! Sadly, that is not enough to post on some of the cool threads on scripture that I see in the Baptist-only section :D).

As I’ve spent time really looking deeply into the Restoration Movement, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Protestantism and Calvinism, some Catholicism, and the fact that every single one of these groups of churches that I’ve mentioned have an incredible variety of disagreements even within themselves, many to the point of declaring Anathama!, it’s made me really stop and consider who is a real Christian.

I could talk about the theological beliefs here and all sorts of things like that which of course are important, but as I continue to meditate on the gospels, especially Luke and Acts over the last three years, that it really seems to me that the early Christians were focused on being as much like Christ as they could. I would bet 90% of them don’t talk about theology and doctrine things like we do. As I’ve read the New Testament over these last years, it really seems to me that the point of all of the teaching is to get people to live their lives like Jesus. It seems that many of us think that we have to have perfect understanding of how forgiveness actually works, or how the Trinity actually relates to each other, or how do you understand exactly what is going on at baptism, etc. etc.

I wonder how many things somebody could get wrong about Jesus and not have the correct knowledge, but still be found in him?

I keep coming back to the trees and the fruit and that you will know them by their fruit and that the Lord will know you are His by if you have built on the foundation of his words (Luke 6). Why are so many current day Christians in America, so focused on ethereal understandings of how spiritual things functionally work behind the scenes, when Jesus says that he will judge us based on what our life looks like with how we live it for him?

Anyway, that sort of my two cents on the subject. I definitely love mulling over theological issues, but I’m not convinced that beyond the basics of the things summarized in the apostles‘s creed you have to understand how everything works to be in Christ. I wonder if as many people that argue on twitter are devoting their lives to prayer, giving to the poor, feeding the hungry, loving and sharing with fellow Christians, and sharing Jesus with people they don’t know.
Our great hope is the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Hey there, everyone,

I wanted to start a thread on “Real Christianity”. I am not to far away from 50 years old and I’ve been mulling this issue over. I think many on this board have spent a significant amount of their mental capacity thinking about what is true and what is right with regards to Christ and how to worship him and think rightly about him (and I am one of them!). I wanted this thread to focus on some of your journey on where you started and what you believe is most important for what you would consider being a “real Christian”.

I grew up with a charismatic background and a bounced around quite a bit within the Independent non-denominational groups of churches with much more of a Baptist like focus (hence what drew me to these boards! Sadly, that is not enough to post on some of the cool threads on scripture that I see in the Baptist-only section :D).

As I’ve spent time really looking deeply into the Restoration Movement, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Protestantism and Calvinism, some Catholicism, and the fact that every single one of these groups of churches that I’ve mentioned have an incredible variety of disagreements even within themselves, many to the point of declaring Anathama!, it’s made me really stop and consider who is a real Christian.

I could talk about the theological beliefs here and all sorts of things like that which of course are important, but as I continue to meditate on the gospels, especially Luke and Acts over the last three years, that it really seems to me that the early Christians were focused on being as much like Christ as they could. I would bet 90% of them don’t talk about theology and doctrine things like we do. As I’ve read the New Testament over these last years, it really seems to me that the point of all of the teaching is to get people to live their lives like Jesus. It seems that many of us think that we have to have perfect understanding of how forgiveness actually works, or how the Trinity actually relates to each other, or how do you understand exactly what is going on at baptism, etc. etc.

I wonder how many things somebody could get wrong about Jesus and not have the correct knowledge, but still be found in him?

I keep coming back to the trees and the fruit and that you will know them by their fruit and that the Lord will know you are His by if you have built on the foundation of his words (Luke 6). Why are so many current day Christians in America, so focused on ethereal understandings of how spiritual things functionally work behind the scenes, when Jesus says that he will judge us based on what our life looks like with how we live it for him?

Anyway, that sort of my two cents on the subject. I definitely love mulling over theological issues, but I’m not convinced that beyond the basics of the things summarized in the apostles‘s creed you have to understand how everything works to be in Christ. I wonder if as many people that argue on twitter are devoting their lives to prayer, giving to the poor, feeding the hungry, loving and sharing with fellow Christians, and sharing Jesus with people they don’t know.
I believe it is very appropriate to strive to present the Gospel of Christ accurately. Yes, it seems we can have wrong views of Christ and still be transferred into Christ by God. But at some point, some lacking in humility or some lacking in devotion and commitment, will result in the lost stumbling into the Soil #2 and #3 categories.

For example, how can we be committed to teaching the Law of Liberty, if we have not studied scripture and learned as many as we are able? Our gospel would lack guard rails.

Yes the church, as formulated in our local assemblies, is riddled with tares and divisive doctrines. That is why we need to preach both to the lost and to the choir. :)

Real Christianity is comprised of born anew believers, but even they can be sidetracked with mistaken understandings. We can be tossed by every wave of doctrine, and we can stumble so much we disqualify ourselves from public ministry. But as long as we have breath, we can serve Him, and help lead others to Christ.
 

Psalty

Active Member
Yes, i think we need the basics of what you see in the Apostles Creed as a summary of core scriptural necessities. You cant really follow Jesus without those basics!
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here is an English version of the Apostles Creed:
I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;
on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.

It can serve as a road map for our basic study of Real Christianity. Our first task would be to provide a single verse that states the premise of each line of the creed. We might choose John 14:1 for the first line. But if you do not know how to find support for each line, then you need to learn how to study to show yourself approved, accurately handling the Word of Truth, 2 Timothy 2:15.
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member

There are four major creeds for the Christian faith. They are the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed of A.D. 325, the Chalcedonian Creed of A.D. 451 and the Athanasian Creed. The Chalcedonian Creed was adopted during the fourth and fifth sessions of the fourth ecumenical council at the city of Chalcedeon in Asia Minor, now modern day Turkey on 22 October and 25 October A.D. 451.

The Chalcedonian Definition​

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member

The Athanasian Creed​



1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. And shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.4
 

Psalty

Active Member
It’s interesting looking at those different creeds, how it seems as they progress through the centuries, they get more and more focused on how to understand the theology of God.

I wonder how the Catholics can affirm the Caledonian creed when it gives a very clear definition of what the catholic faith is!

On a sidenote, I still like the basics of the apostles’s creed. They don’t get into all the logistics of how to think about something, but simply state the plain facts! I like your idea of going through with Bible verses and I do have some time this weekend so I think I’m gonna try to add some to it! Thank you for the suggestion!
 

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
It’s interesting looking at those different creeds, how it seems as they progress through the centuries, they get more and more focused on how to understand the theology of God.

I wonder how the Catholics can affirm the Caledonian creed when it gives a very clear definition of what the catholic faith is!

On a sidenote, I still like the basics of the apostles’s creed. They don’t get into all the logistics of how to think about something, but simply state the plain facts! I like your idea of going through with Bible verses and I do have some time this weekend so I think I’m gonna try to add some to it! Thank you for the suggestion!
Just wondering - did you perhaps mean the "Chalcedonian Creed?" I haven't heard of a Caledonian Creed.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Here is an English version of the Apostles Creed:
I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;
on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.

It can serve as a road map for our basic study of Real Christianity. Our first task would be to provide a single verse that states the premise of each line of the creed. We might choose John 14:1 for the first line. But if you do not know how to find support for each line, then you need to learn how to study to show yourself approved, accurately handling the Word of Truth, 2 Timothy 2:15.

Here is an English version of the Apostles Creed:
All scripture ref from BSB

Apostles Creed
I believe in God, Joh_14:1
the Father almighty, 2Co_6:18
Creator of heaven and earth, Gen_1:1
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, Joh_3:16, 1Co_1:9
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, Luk_1:35
born of the Virgin Mary, Luk_1:34
suffered under Pontius Pilate, Mat_27:22
was crucified, died and was buried; Luk_23:33, Luk_23:52-53
he descended into hell; Eph_4:9
on the third day he rose again from the dead; Luk_24:7, 1Co_15:3-4
he ascended into heaven, Eph_4:8
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty; Col_3:1
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. Act_10:42
I believe in the Holy Spirit, Mar_3:29
the holy catholic Church, 1Co_12:13-14, Col_1:18
the communion of saints, Eph_4:1-6, 1Co_10:16-17
the forgiveness of sins, Act_10:43
the resurrection of the body, Eph_2:6
and life everlasting. Joh_3:15
Amen
 
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