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Reconciliation Reborn
- Thread starter Van
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He chooses people whose faith He credits as righteousness.
Well, well, now this poster has quoted me, but note the quote is different for his fictional claim.
And here is this posters false prior claim:
You say: God chooses people based upon THEIR faith, which God then either judges as righteous or unrighteous faith.
This poster makes up bogus quotes and posts them with impunity to sidetrack discussion of Reconciliation occurring when God alone places an individual into Christ.
]Here is a summary of Particular Reconciliation and General Reconciliation
Particular Reconciliation:
(1) God preselected folks for salvation before creation
(2) Christ came and died for those folks - limited atonement
(3) God gives those folks faith in Christ, then accepts their faith and places them in Christ.
General Reconciliation
(1) God selected Christ to redeem mankind before creation. Therefore those chosen and placed in Christ during their lifetime through belief in the truth were corporately chosen as the target group of His redemption plan before the foundation of the world.
(2) Christ came and died for mankind in general but not specifically for each individual.
(3) God chooses folks and places them in Christ after accepting their faith and reckoning it as righteousness.
The first point of difference centers on the meaning of Ephesians 1:4 which says we (born again believers) were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Particular Reconciliation maintains that being chosen in Him means being chosen as foreseen individuals. General Reconciliation maintains that being chosen in Him means Christ was chosen to be the Lamb of God before the foundation of the world and anyone subsequently redeemed by the Lamb was corporately chosen when He was chosen individually, because you do not choose a Redeemer without a plan to redeem, thus everyone to be redeemed was corporately chosen when His Redeemer was chosen.
The second point of difference centers on the meaning of 1 John 2:2 which says He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. Particular Reconciliation maintains that Jesus is the propitiation not only for elect Jews but also for elect Gentiles. General Reconciliation maintains that Christ is the propitiation not only for believers, but also for everybody else, the whole world. Propitiation means that God’s acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice provides the means of salvation, the mechanism of reconciliation. When God puts a believer spiritually in Christ they “receive” the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice.
The third point of difference centers on the meaning of Romans 4:5 which says but to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness. Particular Reconciliation maintains the “his faith” was supernaturally given to him by God because the unregenerate are spiritually unable to trust in Christ. General Reconciliation maintains “his faith” is the individual’s trust in Christ, because if it were God’s gift of faith, it would not need to be reckoned as righteousness
Particular Reconciliation:
(1) God preselected folks for salvation before creation
(2) Christ came and died for those folks - limited atonement
(3) God gives those folks faith in Christ, then accepts their faith and places them in Christ.
General Reconciliation
(1) God selected Christ to redeem mankind before creation. Therefore those chosen and placed in Christ during their lifetime through belief in the truth were corporately chosen as the target group of His redemption plan before the foundation of the world.
(2) Christ came and died for mankind in general but not specifically for each individual.
(3) God chooses folks and places them in Christ after accepting their faith and reckoning it as righteousness.
The first point of difference centers on the meaning of Ephesians 1:4 which says we (born again believers) were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Particular Reconciliation maintains that being chosen in Him means being chosen as foreseen individuals. General Reconciliation maintains that being chosen in Him means Christ was chosen to be the Lamb of God before the foundation of the world and anyone subsequently redeemed by the Lamb was corporately chosen when He was chosen individually, because you do not choose a Redeemer without a plan to redeem, thus everyone to be redeemed was corporately chosen when His Redeemer was chosen.
The second point of difference centers on the meaning of 1 John 2:2 which says He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. Particular Reconciliation maintains that Jesus is the propitiation not only for elect Jews but also for elect Gentiles. General Reconciliation maintains that Christ is the propitiation not only for believers, but also for everybody else, the whole world. Propitiation means that God’s acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice provides the means of salvation, the mechanism of reconciliation. When God puts a believer spiritually in Christ they “receive” the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice.
The third point of difference centers on the meaning of Romans 4:5 which says but to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness. Particular Reconciliation maintains the “his faith” was supernaturally given to him by God because the unregenerate are spiritually unable to trust in Christ. General Reconciliation maintains “his faith” is the individual’s trust in Christ, because if it were God’s gift of faith, it would not need to be reckoned as righteousness
Reconciliation occurs when God, and God alone chooses an individual and places them spiritually into Christ where they undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration, and they arise in Christ a new creature, a spiritual child of God born by the will of God. God is reconciling humanity one individual at a time, and will be until the end of the age.
When Christ returns, at His second coming, all the spiritual children of God will be unveiled as God's children with our bodily redemption. Our bodily redemption had been promised and predestined and pledged with our indwelt Spirit of Promise, which sealed us in Christ after God put us in Christ during our lifetime.
When Christ returns, at His second coming, all the spiritual children of God will be unveiled as God's children with our bodily redemption. Our bodily redemption had been promised and predestined and pledged with our indwelt Spirit of Promise, which sealed us in Christ after God put us in Christ during our lifetime.
Before attempting to understand the biblical meaning of redemption resulting in reconciliation, we need to ask, “redemption from what?” The most consistent picture is that of slaves or captives being set free from bondage after the payment of a price.
The root meaning of the Greek words translated redeemed or redemption is loosening, with some forms of the word being combined with “apo” meaning “out from.” So the idea of the combined word is to be not only providing the price of freedom, but also the transport from captivity to someplace else, e.g. deliverance.
The Greek word transliterated “lutrosin” (G3085) appears three times, Luke 1:68, Luke 2:38 and Hebrews 9:12.
In Luke 1:68 we see the prophecy that God visited us and provided redemption for His people. This usage presents the idea of possible rescue and salvation from a bad situation, Right off the bat we encounter one of the difficulties in understanding "redemption" because many translation present that Christ accomplished redemption, whereas others (correctly in my opinion) present that Christ provided for the redemption of His people. If we co-mingle ransom and redemption, we create a muddle.
Luke 2:38 references people who are “anticipating their redemption in Jerusalem."
In Hebrews 9:12, we see that Christ through His blood procured eternal redemption. This fits the picture of being ransomed by the payment of a redemption-price. Further, this redemption is eternal; it does not have a shelf life.
In Luke 24:21 we find "lytroō" (G3084) which is translated as "redeem." The meaning is to cause the release upon receipt of the ransom. Thus when God transfers a condemned individual from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His Son, the individual is redeemed. This word also appears in Titus 2:14 and 1 Peter 1:18. Note that Jesus gave Himself up (dying on the cross) to redeem us by providing the redemption-price for our salvation.
Jesus was both the High Priest who slays the sacrifice and then sprinkles the blood on those receiving the benefit of the sacrifice, and the sacrifice, the Lamb of God.
Romans 3:24 says (NASB), “being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.” God’s grace can accomplish many varied things, and so Paul makes it clear that the grace being given is through or by the means of the redemption [deliverance], which is in Christ Jesus. So this verse points to receiving the benefit of Christ’s sacrifice when we are put “in Christ” rather than when He shed His precious blood on the cross. Here the Greek word rendered "redemption" is "apolytrōsis" (G629).
Romans 8:23, here G629 is applied to our bodily redemption at Christ's second coming.
1 Corinthians 1:30 says: "But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption," (G629) Once God has redeemed us by placing us into Christ (our redemption from the domain of darkness, and thus being set apart within Christ (sanctification), we undergo the washing of regeneration and are born anew, which results in our being made the righteousness of God, we are then sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit who becomes our wisdom from God.
Ephesians 1:7 says (NASB), “In Him we have redemption (G629) through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.” So again, only when “in Him” (within Him) do we have the gift of His redemptive grace, which sets us free from every lawless deed, the forgiveness of our trespasses.
Ephesians 1:14 and 4:30 refer to our redemption (G629) from our corrupt flesh. But as a sidelight when we are placed spiritually into Christ, we received our eternal redemption from the bondage of sin, and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit in Christ as a pledge of our inheritance which is to be raised in glorified bodies, set free from the corruption of the flesh. Thus those within Christ have been past tense spiritually redeemed, and are predestined to be bodily redeemed at Christ's second coming.
Next, Colossians 1:13-14 completely summarizes the biblical concept of redemption from the bondage of sin. “For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Hebrews 9:15: For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption (G629) of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Another word used with more than one intended meaning is "called" which in this verse refers to be transferred spiritually into Christ.
Hebrews 11:35 has our last example: "Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release (G629), so that they might obtain a better resurrection; Here G629 should be rendered "redemption" referring to an earthly release from captivity.
In summary four Greek words are translated as redeemed or redemption, but the concept is clear, being relocated from the realm of darkness into Christ spiritually, or out of our (dead or alive) mortal and corrupt body into our glorified body. He paid the price of redemption on the cross, the ransom for all, but only when God puts us spiritually into Christ are we "redeemed" and "reconciled."
God Bless
The root meaning of the Greek words translated redeemed or redemption is loosening, with some forms of the word being combined with “apo” meaning “out from.” So the idea of the combined word is to be not only providing the price of freedom, but also the transport from captivity to someplace else, e.g. deliverance.
The Greek word transliterated “lutrosin” (G3085) appears three times, Luke 1:68, Luke 2:38 and Hebrews 9:12.
In Luke 1:68 we see the prophecy that God visited us and provided redemption for His people. This usage presents the idea of possible rescue and salvation from a bad situation, Right off the bat we encounter one of the difficulties in understanding "redemption" because many translation present that Christ accomplished redemption, whereas others (correctly in my opinion) present that Christ provided for the redemption of His people. If we co-mingle ransom and redemption, we create a muddle.
Luke 2:38 references people who are “anticipating their redemption in Jerusalem."
In Hebrews 9:12, we see that Christ through His blood procured eternal redemption. This fits the picture of being ransomed by the payment of a redemption-price. Further, this redemption is eternal; it does not have a shelf life.
In Luke 24:21 we find "lytroō" (G3084) which is translated as "redeem." The meaning is to cause the release upon receipt of the ransom. Thus when God transfers a condemned individual from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His Son, the individual is redeemed. This word also appears in Titus 2:14 and 1 Peter 1:18. Note that Jesus gave Himself up (dying on the cross) to redeem us by providing the redemption-price for our salvation.
Jesus was both the High Priest who slays the sacrifice and then sprinkles the blood on those receiving the benefit of the sacrifice, and the sacrifice, the Lamb of God.
Romans 3:24 says (NASB), “being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.” God’s grace can accomplish many varied things, and so Paul makes it clear that the grace being given is through or by the means of the redemption [deliverance], which is in Christ Jesus. So this verse points to receiving the benefit of Christ’s sacrifice when we are put “in Christ” rather than when He shed His precious blood on the cross. Here the Greek word rendered "redemption" is "apolytrōsis" (G629).
Romans 8:23, here G629 is applied to our bodily redemption at Christ's second coming.
1 Corinthians 1:30 says: "But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption," (G629) Once God has redeemed us by placing us into Christ (our redemption from the domain of darkness, and thus being set apart within Christ (sanctification), we undergo the washing of regeneration and are born anew, which results in our being made the righteousness of God, we are then sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit who becomes our wisdom from God.
Ephesians 1:7 says (NASB), “In Him we have redemption (G629) through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.” So again, only when “in Him” (within Him) do we have the gift of His redemptive grace, which sets us free from every lawless deed, the forgiveness of our trespasses.
Ephesians 1:14 and 4:30 refer to our redemption (G629) from our corrupt flesh. But as a sidelight when we are placed spiritually into Christ, we received our eternal redemption from the bondage of sin, and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit in Christ as a pledge of our inheritance which is to be raised in glorified bodies, set free from the corruption of the flesh. Thus those within Christ have been past tense spiritually redeemed, and are predestined to be bodily redeemed at Christ's second coming.
Next, Colossians 1:13-14 completely summarizes the biblical concept of redemption from the bondage of sin. “For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Hebrews 9:15: For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption (G629) of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Another word used with more than one intended meaning is "called" which in this verse refers to be transferred spiritually into Christ.
Hebrews 11:35 has our last example: "Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release (G629), so that they might obtain a better resurrection; Here G629 should be rendered "redemption" referring to an earthly release from captivity.
In summary four Greek words are translated as redeemed or redemption, but the concept is clear, being relocated from the realm of darkness into Christ spiritually, or out of our (dead or alive) mortal and corrupt body into our glorified body. He paid the price of redemption on the cross, the ransom for all, but only when God puts us spiritually into Christ are we "redeemed" and "reconciled."
God Bless
Did anyone say that faith is a human attribute, and is not the result of God revealing His gospel via witnesses, not the result of being drawn (attracted) by God, not the result of hearing and learning from the Father? Nope.
God chooses folks and places them in Christ after accepting their faith and reckoning it as righteousness. (Romans 4:4-5; Romans 4:23-24)
God chooses folks and places them in Christ after accepting their faith and reckoning it as righteousness. (Romans 4:4-5; Romans 4:23-24)
Closed at OP's request.
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