Red and Blue America Agree That Now Is the Time to Violate the Constitution

[KenH]

Be very, very careful, my fellow Americans. Governments historically are very eager to grab power and very reluctant to give up power once grabbed.

Red and Blue America Agree That Now Is the Time to Violate the Constitution

 

[Gold Dragon]

Be very, very careful, my fellow Americans. Governments historically are very eager to grab power and very reluctant to give up power once grabbed.

Red and Blue America Agree That Now Is the Time to Violate the Constitution

No civil liberty is an absolute. And as civil societies with constitutions and legislatures, we can decide when it is reasonable to limit those freedoms for the good of the whole like saying free speech does not include slander or yelling fire in a theatre. That freedom of religion does not include virgin sacrifice or terrorizing minority groups. That the right to bear arms does not include biological or nuclear weapons.

Yes we need to be careful of unintended consequences of limiting those freedoms.

 

[Revmitchell]

No civil liberty is an absolute. And as civil societies with constitutions and legislatures, we can decide when it is reasonable to limit those freedoms for the good of the whole like saying free speech does not include slander or yelling fire in a theatre. That freedom of religion does not include virgin sacrifice or terrorizing minority groups. That the right to bear arms does not include biological or nuclear weapons.

Yes we need to be careful of unintended consequences of limiting those freedoms.

You are not an American, you do not have any skin in this game, your opinion is nothing more than lefty talking points.

 

[Gold Dragon]

You are not an American, you do not have any skin in this game, your opinion is nothing more than lefty talking points.

Ok. But you wouldn’t be trying to censor me now would you?

 

[church mouse guy]

No civil liberty is an absolute. And as civil societies with constitutions and legislatures, we can decide when it is reasonable to limit those freedoms for the good of the whole like saying free speech does not include slander or yelling fire in a theatre. That freedom of religion does not include virgin sacrifice or terrorizing minority groups. That the right to bear arms does not include biological or nuclear weapons.

Yes we need to be careful of unintended consequences of limiting those freedoms.

Rights come from God not the government. Australians have no Bill of Rights and do not enjoy the freedoms that Americans do. In Australia the government has already disarmed you as if you were a bunch of Germans. Now you are in a lockdown of a greater magnitude than the USA in spite of your vast territories.

 

[Gold Dragon]

I don't think this thread should be derailed by those who seem to be afraid of civil debate in a debate forum and feel the need to turn this into an attack on my nationality.

This is an important topic for civil societies around the world as pandemics are likely to become more and more common. There is a need to balance existing individual civil liberties with societal security which is always the tension in these discussions.

Each society needs to make that decision of where they draw those lines and there will be negative consequences either way. The intro in the Atlantic article highlights some tensions already taking place in Italy, Norway, Poland and Isreal so the article in the OP is not about the US only.

It links to so many other good thought provoking articles about how people are responding in this pandemic like this article about governments grabbing power and how civil liberties are being taken away temporarily and maybe permanently, and is being attempted in the United States by Trump's DOJ.

And with what is likely to be a regular cycle of pandemics because of human population and interconnectedness it is something that all societies need to consider and prepare for going forward.

Thanks for the insightful articles @KenH

 

[church mouse guy]

Why do you cite Politico? Of course the USA has a God-given right to secure borders. Taxes are too high and a tax cut weakens big government so we all want a tax cut. The last cut went to corporations--the next one is for individuals so of course Politico and the Democrats are against it.

Restrictions on liberty would not be necessary if the CDC had been prepared instead of being a political wing of the Democrats. I did not hear of anyone on the federal government giving up his overpaid federal job when he realized it had been weaponized by the Democrats.

Look to France for a well-run government health agency and look to Taiwan for proper preparedness.

The USA was not prepared and this caused a lot of sickness and death.

Our Constitution is the best in the world but our government is corrupt.

Stop using us as an example of the right way. We were caught unprepared. CNN is still attacking the government. CBS lied. NBC helped cover up for a Democrat activist woman who probably murdered her husband with fish tank cleaner. That's American journalism.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Why do you cite Politico?

It was linked in the Atlantic article and Politico was the one who broke this story as every other source quotes them.

It was confirmed by DOJ spokesperson Kerri Kupec. It seems to be trying to confer these powers to the judiciary and not the executive.
KerriKupecDOJ on Twitter

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with any specific power being requested by the DOJ. I'm just saying this is happening in the US as well and not just something happening in Europe or Asia.

 

[church mouse guy]

It was linked in the Atlantic article and Politico was the one who broke this story as every other source quotes them.

It was confirmed by DOJ spokesperson Kerri Kupec. It seems to be trying to confer these powers to the judiciary and not the executive.
KerriKupecDOJ on Twitter

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with any specific power being requested by the DOJ. I'm just saying this is happening in the US as well and not just something happening in Europe or Asia.

I already told you that the USA was caught unprepared and that France and Taiwan outperformed us.

The police are not doing anything to bust up ghetto parties like the one in Cincinnati on Saturday night and many others elsewhere. We have a lying press and an uncooperative block of leftists who probably will infect themselves. I am from the MidWest--we obey even if we think the government is stupid.

Apparently, the Chinese nationals betrayed Australia and shipped tons of medical supplies to their communist bosses. Is that the reason that Australia wants a police state for themselves?

 

[Gold Dragon]

I already told you that the USA was caught unprepared and that France and Taiwan outperformed us.

The police are not doing anything to bust up ghetto parties like the one in Cincinnati on Saturday night and many others elsewhere. We have a lying press and an uncooperative block of leftists who probably will infect themselves. I am from the MidWest--we obey even if we think the government is stupid.

Apparently, the Chinese nationals betrayed Australia and shipped tons of medical supplies to their communist bosses. Is that the reason that Australia wants a police state for themselves?

cmg, I'm not trying to be rude or insulting but I often cannot follow how tangential your posts are and I don't see how any of these statements are relevant to this topic or the post you are replying to. And I've been seeing more of these types of posts from you than before, I think.

I have to be honest as a doctor that I am a bit worried about your mental health. Is everything ok?

 

[church mouse guy]

cmg, I'm not trying to be rude or insulting but I often cannot follow how tangential your posts are and I don't see how any of these statements are relevant to this topic or the post you are replying to. And I've been seeing more of these types of posts from you than before, I think.

I have to be honest as a doctor that I am a bit worried about your mental health. Is everything ok?

I think that your socialist game is up. Do you work for Greenland?

 

[Gold Dragon]

I think that your socialist game is up. Do you work for Greenland?

Maybe you should sleep. I will check out for now. Take care of yourself.

 

[Aaron]

No civil liberty is an absolute.

The worship of God is an absolute right and liberty, despite the fact that many around the world want and do kill Christians just for that. Is this your defense of them?

Then I could work from there about how loving my neighbor means that I don't stand idly by while he is being victimized, and use deadly force against his oppressors if necessary to protect him.

Right there I've established the absolute right to the free exercise of my religion, and the right to keep and bear arms.

 

[church mouse guy]

Maybe you should sleep. I will check out for now. Take care of yourself.

You, too. I have an essential job still and I work nights. Look to Taiwan for the solution to pandemics.

 

[Revmitchell]

I don't think this thread should be derailed by those who seem to be afraid of civil debate in a debate forum and feel the need to turn this into an attack on my nationality.

That is quite the characterization. Your lack of American nationality is an important factor in any debate about the rights and freedoms we, in America, have and hold. In fact we question whether you as a non-American can appreciate what we have since you do not have any skin in the game. It's easy to sit in the cheap seats, as a non-American, and decide that rights are not absolute and then work to apply that to whatever it is you do not personally like about America. You are going to find the vast majority of Americans will not tolerate your claims. You may not like that we find your personal opinions on our American rights not credible, but we do not care.

 

[Yeshua1]

Be very, very careful, my fellow Americans. Governments historically are very eager to grab power and very reluctant to give up power once grabbed.

Red and Blue America Agree That Now Is the Time to Violate the Constitution

After Covid passes through, will we not be under pressure to no longer assembly freely so many people on Churches, as can "bring it back?"

 

[KenH]

After Covid passes through, will we not be under pressure to no longer assembly freely so many people on Churches, as can "bring it back?"

I don’t know. There are already doom-and-gloomers saying that “life will never go back to normal.” They may try to convince government that we can never, ever again allow people to assemble in large crowds. There are lots of people who love the power to tell everyone else what they can or can’t do.

 

[Yeshua1]

I don’t know. There are already doom-and-gloomers saying that “life will never go back to normal.” They may try to convince government that we can never, ever again allow people to assemble in large crowds. There are lots of people who love the power to tell everyone else what thwn the Pike!ey can or can’t do.

This seems to be a sent up fpr something bigger coming down the pike! Will we even ab able to have the election in Novemer, if not what?

 

[KenH]

Will we even ab able to have the election in Novemer, if not what?

November is 7 months from now. The Lord willing, we’ll be past this panic phase by then.

 

[Yeshua1]

November is 7 months from now. The Lord willing, we’ll be past this panic phase by then.

Could be the start though of the "winter flareup"