Reformed Church services

[SolaSaint]

Hi All,

Every once in-a-while I go over to the Puritanboard to see what is happening with our brothers & sisters in the Reformed faith. I really have trouble understanding them. While I respect and agree with their preaching & teaching of the Doctrines of Grace, I am confused at what they consider correct worship. My take on them is that a church is only to expositorily preach the word and sing old time hymns..and take the Lord's Supper, and that is about it.

I saw a thread on ther recently chastising a Baptist church that placed a few Christmas tress in their church, plus a manger scene. They didn't like the fact that there was rock style band or that the congregation clapped after a song. What is it about these reformed guys, they love to drink and even boast about it, but when it comes to music style or decorating a church they are sticklers. They seem to hate praise songs but love beer...I don't get it. I guess we all pick and choose. Hopefully we will all laugh it over in Heaven.

 

[Revmitchell]

I am a member of that board. I have not been there in a while. Its an odd mind set.

 

[SolaSaint]

Rev,

Merry Christmas...

Yeah, they seem like a very solid bunch when it comes to knowing Scripture but almost legalistic in many areas. I once questioned them on their love of alcohol and I got hammered from almost everyone in their. Then they almost call someone a heretic for singing a praise song or preaching a topical sermon. I really need to stay away from that site ...need to make it a New Years resolution.

 

[Herald]

Rev,

Merry Christmas...

Yeah, they seem like a very solid bunch when it comes to knowing Scripture but almost legalistic in many areas. I once questioned them on their love of alcohol and I got hammered from almost everyone in their. Then they almost call someone a heretic for singing a praise song or preaching a topical sermon. I really need to stay away from that site ...need to make it a New Years resolution.

I agree. You should stay away from that site.

 

[Iconoclast]

Regulative principle of worship
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




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The regulative principle of worship is a teaching shared by some Calvinists and Anabaptists on how the Bible orders public worship. The substance of the doctrine regarding worship is that only those elements that are instituted or appointed by command or example or which can be deduced by good and necessary consequence from Scripture are permissible in worship, and that whatever is not commanded or cannot be deduced by good and necessary consequence from Scripture is prohibited. The term "regulative principle" is less frequently broadened to apply to other areas such as church government [1][2][page needed], but in this sense it becomes synonymous with the principle of sola scriptura.

The regulative principle is often contrasted with the normative principle of worship which teaches that whatever is not prohibited in Scripture is permitted in worship, as long as it is agreeable to the peace and unity of the Church. In short, there must be agreement with the general practice of the Church and no prohibition in Scripture for whatever is done in worship.

The normative principle of worship is the generally accepted approach to worship practiced by Anglicans, Evangelicals, and Methodists. The regulative principle of worship is generally practiced by the conservative Reformed churches, Restoration Movement, and in other conservative Protestant denominations, and it finds expression in confessional documents such as the Westminster Confession of Faith (see Chapter 21), the Heidelberg Catechism, the Belgic Confession, and the London Baptist Confession of Faith.

 

[Herald]

Regulative principle of worship
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




v
t
e

The regulative principle of worship is a teaching shared by some Calvinists and Anabaptists on how the Bible orders public worship. The substance of the doctrine regarding worship is that only those elements that are instituted or appointed by command or example or which can be deduced by good and necessary consequence from Scripture are permissible in worship, and that whatever is not commanded or cannot be deduced by good and necessary consequence from Scripture is prohibited. The term "regulative principle" is less frequently broadened to apply to other areas such as church government [1][2][page needed], but in this sense it becomes synonymous with the principle of sola scriptura.

The regulative principle is often contrasted with the normative principle of worship which teaches that whatever is not prohibited in Scripture is permitted in worship, as long as it is agreeable to the peace and unity of the Church. In short, there must be agreement with the general practice of the Church and no prohibition in Scripture for whatever is done in worship.

The normative principle of worship is the generally accepted approach to worship practiced by Anglicans, Evangelicals, and Methodists. The regulative principle of worship is generally practiced by the conservative Reformed churches, Restoration Movement, and in other conservative Protestant denominations, and it finds expression in confessional documents such as the Westminster Confession of Faith (see Chapter 21), the Heidelberg Catechism, the Belgic Confession, and the London Baptist Confession of Faith.

Here is a wonderful document explaining the Regulative Principle: Regulative Principle of Worship

 

[mont974x4]

EDIT: Sorry, did not notice this was in the Baptist section.

 

[Revmitchell]

Rev,

Merry Christmas...

Yeah, they seem like a very solid bunch when it comes to knowing Scripture but almost legalistic in many areas. I once questioned them on their love of alcohol and I got hammered from almost everyone in their. Then they almost call someone a heretic for singing a praise song or preaching a topical sermon. I really need to stay away from that site ...need to make it a New Years resolution.

When one spends much time studying but never lives what they study in a sacrificial manner they very easily become legalistic. When you are in the trenches putting your loving arm around a stinky dirty drunk, when you have had to hand scrub a rear pew because you let a drunk come in from out of the cold during a service and he has peed on the pew while he was there ( and you would do it again), when you have had to cut a man down out of his closet where he has hung himself, when you have had to eat stews made of animal parts you never thought you would, what you find is that the frivolous and menial is no longer a primary focus.

When you have spent the majority of your week dealing with three teen suicides and funerals in a community of 1900 where there has been 16 teen suicides in a 9 month period then you get a better perspective on life and just what Holy living really is.

But when you spend most of your time in your chair at home on your computer screen with your face in E Sword or some forum then your perspective will be shot clear to hell, if you get my meaning.

Because when your attitude is like you have described there is no way they are living a life of Christ among them who do not know Him. When you are living in a sacrificial way I can tell you it will change your attitude, it will change your ministry, and it will change your life.

 

[Herald]

When one spends much time studying but never lives what they study in a sacrificial manner they very easily become legalistic. When you are in the trenches putting your loving arm around a stinky dirty drunk, when you have had to hand scrub a rear pew because you let a drunk come in from out of the cold during a service and he has peed on the pew while he was there ( and you would do it again), when you have had to cut a man down out of his closet where he has hung himself, when you have had to eat stews made of animal parts you never thought you would what you find is that the frivolous and menial is no longer a primary focus.

When you have spent the majority of your week dealing with three teen suicides in a community of 1900 where there has been 16 teen suicides in a 9 month period then you get a better perspective on life and just what Holy living really is.

But when you spend most of your time in your chair at home on your computer screen with your face in E Sword or some forum then your perspective will be shot clear to hell, if you get my meaning.

Because when your attitude is like you have described there is no way they are living a life of Christ among them who do not know Him.

I have no criticism about what you just posted. I don't know how it applies to worship per se, but it certainly displays a pastoral heart.

 

[Revmitchell]

I have no criticism about what you just posted. I don't know how it applies to worship per se, but it certainly displays a pastoral heart.

My post was in response to post # 3.

 

[Herald]

My post was in response to post # 3.

My apologies. Still, I praise God for your pastors heart.

 

[Revmitchell]

My apologies. Still, I praise God for your pastors heart.

No apology needed. I went ahead and added a quote in that post.

 

[Revmitchell]

Let me add something else, if you are to stick those legalisms and catechisms in the face of the people I minister to it will mean nothing. If you talk about expository verses topical to a people with no hope it will be like talking Latin.

We need to be sharing Jesus and just why He is their hope and their light. The things we talk about here on this forum have no meaning outside of our moment and time while doing it.

And those who want dry dead churches devoid of the glory of praise and the beauty of color and decorations know nothing about the God I serve. They puff themselves up with knowledge and the ability they "think" they have to debate and discuss "intellectual" issues.

Let them come out here and get in the trenches with me on the reservation. Let them go to third world situations like India or Africa and spend some time living with putrid conditions for the glory of God.

Then come back and talk to me about Catechisms. Outside of that they can take their catechisms and legalisms and godless worship and stick it up their nose.

 

[TadQueasy]

I saw a thread on ther recently chastising a Baptist church that placed a few Christmas tress in their church, plus a manger scene. They didn't like the fact that there was rock style band or that the congregation clapped after a song. What is it about these reformed guys, they love to drink and even boast about it, but when it comes to music style or decorating a church they are sticklers. They seem to hate praise songs but love beer...I don't get it. I guess we all pick and choose. Hopefully we will all laugh it over in Heaven.

Is there a link to this thread, was just curious the things being said? I looked around briefly at the site and could not find it. Thanks.

 

[Iconoclast]

Let me add something else, if you are to stick those legalisms and catechisms in the face of the people I minister to it will mean nothing. If you talk about expository verses topical to a people with no hope it will be like talking Latin.

We need to be sharing Jesus and just why He is their hope and their light. The things we talk about here on this forum have no meaning outside of our moment and time while doing it.

And those who want dry dead churches devoid of the glory of praise and the beauty of color and decorations know nothing about the God I serve. They puff themselves up with knowledge and the ability they "think" they have to debate and discuss "intellectual" issues.

Let them come out here and get in the trenches with me on the reservation. Let them go to third world situations like India or Africa and spend some time living with putrid conditions.

Then come back and talk to me about Catechisms. Outside of that they can take their catechisms and legalism and godless worship and stick them up their nose.

There are many who are out in those places and do so with Cathechisms,and systematic theology in them. They then reach the people and educate them biblically.
Scripture is equally valid with the hopi indians, or Bangledesh indians, or inner city derelict missions. It is not an either or. You are over stating your case.The gospel does not change because someone lives in New Mexico.
if you are expressing frustration about someone who stays in a "proverbial Ivory tower" that is one thing.
But this broad brush attacking of how other brethren conduct Kingdom buisness is misguided to some degree.
Sin is sin...with rich people or poor people. Those you are ministering among need a living hope. That is why God has you there. You have your work cut out for you.There is no doubt about that. I would just urge you to be careful in thinking that rich people sin...is not as wicked as poor people sin.

God's truth does not change because you are on the RES. Do not despise the tools that have been used by many. If you say your people would view it as latin....then that is your job to be the latin teacher there.:wavey:

 

[Revmitchell]

There are many who are out in those places and do so with Cathechisms,and systematic theology in them. They then reach the people and educate them biblically.
Scripture is equally valid with the hopi indians, or Bangledesh indians, or inner city derelict missions. It is not an either or. You are over stating your case.The gospel does not change because someone lives in New Mexico.
if you are expressing frustration about someone who stays in a "proverbial Ivory tower" that is one thing.
But this broad brush attacking of how other brethren conduct Kingdom buisness is misguided to some degree.
Sin is sin...with rich people or poor people. Those you are ministering among need a living hope. That is why God has you there. You have your work cut out for you.There is no doubt about that. I would just urge you to be careful in thinking that rich people sin...is not as wicked as poor people sin.

God's truth does not change because you are on the RES. Do not despise the tools that have been used by many. If you say your people would view it as latin....then that is your job to be the latin teacher there.:wavey:

What I am saying is they are the tools of the ignorant. They have little meaning to the gospel and what actually changes lives. They are of little value and show no one any hope. They are majoring on the insignificant. They are the tools of those in the ivory towers to beat people over the head on forums.

 

[Iconoclast]

Hi All,

Every once in-a-while I go over to the Puritanboard to see what is happening with our brothers & sisters in the Reformed faith. I really have trouble understanding them. While I respect and agree with their preaching & teaching of the Doctrines of Grace, I am confused at what they consider correct worship. My take on them is that a church is only to expositorily preach the word and sing old time hymns..and take the Lord's Supper, and that is about it.

I saw a thread on ther recently chastising a Baptist church that placed a few Christmas tress in their church, plus a manger scene. They didn't like the fact that there was rock style band or that the congregation clapped after a song. What is it about these reformed guys, they love to drink and even boast about it, but when it comes to music style or decorating a church they are sticklers. They seem to hate praise songs but love beer...I don't get it. I guess we all pick and choose. Hopefully we will all laugh it over in Heaven.

Overall......the members on the PB are very godly persons and from what I have seen are more Christlike in their responses then many on BB.
Being a confessional board they do not open themselves up to anything outside of the regulative principle.
They are not about to go for any second commandment violations.

 

[Iconoclast]

What I am saying is they are the tools of the ignorant. They have little meaning to the gospel and what actually changes lives. They are of little value and show no one any hope. They are majoring on the insignificant. They are the tools of those in the ivory towers to beat people over the head on forums.

I do not share your point of view on this.What do you replace any of these tools with....Just whatever you come up with instead?
It does not sound to me like you are familiar with these tools.
the teaching of Scripture, God, Soteriology and sanctification are not the Insignificant. I think I understand somewhat what you are saying...but I think you are throwing out the baby with the bath water.

What I am saying is they are the tools of the ignorant. They have little meaning to the gospel and what actually changes lives. They are of little value and show no one any hope

Knowing the teaching of scripture and being able to articulate it accurately is hardly the tools of the ignorant.
I guarantee you could not improve on the wording or the teaching of most of the Cathechisms.....even if at first...you might need to break them down slowly to those who you minister to.

 

[TadQueasy]

I, too, think I understand the point he is making, but I think referring to them as tools of the ignorant is a little much and is a rather harsh generalization that does not benefit the conversation at all.

 

[Iconoclast]

I, too, think I understand the point he is making, but I think referring to them as tools of the ignorant is a little much and is a rather harsh generalization that does not benefit the conversation at all.

Where he is ......is as he describes it. I know he is not blowing smoke saying what he is. Obviously to minister among those where God has him is a challenge. If anything we should all keep him in prayer. I just do not believe there has to be a dis-connect.....between what we know,and learn...and ministering that truth in love.

A person who ministers to people with mental and emotional handicaps....still goes to school, still learns and trains themselves as best they can, before hitting the trenches.....they might very well disregard some of the training....and modify it to fit their ministry to some extent.....

but they do not say...well....i do not need training...