Reframing the health care debate

[targus]

Perhaps it is time to talk about health care as a personal responsibility rather than as a right.

Why is it not a responsiblity of each father to obtain health care insurance for his family is it is his responsiblity to care for his family in other ways?

Why is it not the responsibility for each adult to obtain health care insurance for themselves as it is their responsibilty to care for themselves in other ways?

If someone can afford cable TV, a second car, a couple of TVs, a personal computer with internet connection, fast food, vacations, new furniture, a microwave, clothes washer and dryer, a dishwasher, video games - why is it unreasonable to think that they should be able to afford health care insurance?

Oops... I forgot the mention cell phone, GPS, patio furniture, BBQ, lawnmower, snowblower, DVD player, air conditioning, haircuts, pizza - well you get the idea.

 

[annsni]

AMEN!!! :thumbs:

 

[OldRegular]

Perhaps it is time to talk about health care as a personal responsibility rather than as a right.

Why is it not a responsiblity of each father to obtain health care insurance for his family is it is his responsiblity to care for his family in other ways?

Why is it not the responsibility for each adult to obtain health care insurance for themselves as it is their responsibilty to care for themselves in other ways?

If someone can afford cable TV, a second car, a couple of TVs, a personal computer with internet connection, fast food, vacations, new furniture, a microwave, clothes washer and dryer, a dishwasher, video games - why is it unreasonable to think that they should be able to afford health care insurance?

Oops... I forgot the mention cell phone, GPS, patio furniture, BBQ, lawnmower, snowblower, DVD player, air conditioning, haircuts, pizza - well you get the idea.

No doubt there are some people who cannot afford Medical insurance. However, most of the people who don't have insurance don't want it but had rather spend the money on themselves for the goodies you list above.

 

[alatide]

Perhaps it is time to talk about health care as a personal responsibility rather than as a right.

Why is it not a responsiblity of each father to obtain health care insurance for his family is it is his responsiblity to care for his family in other ways?

Why is it not the responsibility for each adult to obtain health care insurance for themselves as it is their responsibilty to care for themselves in other ways?

If someone can afford cable TV, a second car, a couple of TVs, a personal computer with internet connection, fast food, vacations, new furniture, a microwave, clothes washer and dryer, a dishwasher, video games - why is it unreasonable to think that they should be able to afford health care insurance?

Oops... I forgot the mention cell phone, GPS, patio furniture, BBQ, lawnmower, snowblower, DVD player, air conditioning, haircuts, pizza - well you get the idea.

Well, you've very effectively described exactly where you stand. People like you (and me by the way) who have a good education and a good job deserve adequate health care. All others just don't deserve it. In about one third of the households with children under 18 there is only one parent, usually the mother. There is no father to provide for his family. You would just throw them out on the street.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/families_households/009842.html

Of course, the 10% of Americans who are unemployed due to Bush's depression don't count either. If they were truly worthy there would have a job, right?

Those with preexisting conditions that either make it impossible or very, very expensive to obtain health insurance don't count either. How dare them to have medical problems!

Those who work for small companies that don't provide health insurance don't count either. Why don't they get a real job, right?

In short, your philosophy is for me and everyone like me, health care insurance isn't a problem. Everyone else just doesn't deserve it.

I'm not arguing for me. Right now I'm in good shape probably better than you. I'm arguing for those less fortunate than myself. Somehow, you just don't care about them. Is that really a Christian position. I don't think so but you can answer to Jesus on the Judgment Day for your own actions.

 

[targus]

So, alatide, I take from your response that you are not an advocate of personal responsiblity. No surprise there.

You think that a person should buy a second car, a third TV, an upgraded personal computer, etc. before providing for their family's health care - no?

As for my personal financial situation, education, employment, etc... you may not want to go there.

You see as someone who does believe in personal responsibility I have more than adequately provided for my family and my future.

From all of the complaining that you have done here about how dissatified you are with your current employer provided medical insurance it is not difficult for me to imagine your personal financial situation.

 

[Johnv]

The bottom line is, if a person has a cell phone and cable tv, they can afford health insurance? The typical cost of cell phone and cable service is about $100.00 monthly. Typical cost of basic private health insurance for a 40yo nonsmoking male is about $100.00.

 

[targus]

The bottom line is, if a person has a cell phone and cable tv, they can afford health insurance? The typical cost of cell phone and cable service is about $100.00 monthly. Typical cost of basic private health insurance for a 40yo nonsmoking male is about $100.00.

Actually, when my oldest son was just out of college he purchased Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance for $48 a month.

There were co-pays and deductibles to $2,000 per year but after that everything was covered.

Even at his relatively young age he was smart enough to know that it was a bargain and that in the worst case the most his health care cost would be in a year was $2,576.

His actual experience was $576 in cost for premiums because he had no need to see a doctor. At the same time however he saved up the $2,000 that he needed as a back up.

 

[alatide]

So, alatide, I take from your response that you are not an advocate of personal responsiblity. No surprise there.

You think that a person should buy a second car, a third TV, an upgraded personal computer, etc. before providing for their family's health care - no?

As for my personal financial situation, education, employment, etc... you may not want to go there.

You see as someone who does believe in personal responsibility I have more than adequately provided for my family and my future.

From all of the complaining that you have done here about how dissatified you are with your current employer provided medical insurance it is not difficult for me to imagine your personal financial situation.

I am an advocate of personal responsibility. I'm simply saying that there are many in the US who are not as fortunate as you. I ssume that as a self-proclaimed "Christian" you don't care about them. As Jesus said:

Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Which side do you want to be on Judgment Day? I want to be on Christ'ss right side.

 

[Revmitchell]

No doubt there are some people who cannot afford Medical insurance. However, most of the people who don't have insurance don't want it but had rather spend the money on themselves for the goodies you list above.

Not more than 10 or 15 million "Americans" if that.

 

[Johnv]

That's a good point. Regardless of whether or not one favors federalized health insurance, there is no jusitication for providing free health insurance to people who are in the country illegally. The population of illegal aliens in the US is currently 11 million people (down from 12.5 million two years ago).

 

[targus]

I am an advocate of personal responsibility. I'm simply saying that there are many in the US who are not as fortunate as you.

I have noticed that you have not yet agreed that people who have money to spend on the luxuries that I listed out in the OP should first have money for their health care insurance.

Until you make such an admission I have no cause to believe that you are an advocate of personal responsibilty.

I assume that as a self-proclaimed "Christian" you don't care about them.

Well then you assume wrongly. You have no idea as to my personal cares for those in need.

And I would assume that a self-proclaimed "Christian" would not advocate for a national health care system that ultimately will hold that an abortion is a medical right.

And I would assume that a self-proclaimed "Christian" would not vote for 'the one" who actively promotes and supports abortion - even to the point of pushing to discard living babies into the trash heap.

And you have the nerve to talk about others standing before God in Judgement.

All I can say is "Wow !!!"

 

[alatide]

Actually, when my oldest son was just out of college he purchased Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance for $48 a month.

There were co-pays and deductibles to $2,000 per year but after that everything was covered.

Even at his relatively young age he was smart enough to know that it was a bargain and that in the worst case the most his health care cost would be in a year was $2,576.

His actual experience was $576 in cost for premiums because he had no need to see a doctor. At the same time however he saved up the $2,000 that he needed as a back up.

You just don't understand. That might be true for a 21 year old in excellent health. What about a 50 year old single, unemployed person with a pre-existing condition? When I was your son's age I went to the doctor once every five years whether I needed to or not. Things are very different when you get older. We're talking about covering people who really need health care not 21 YO in good health.

 

[just-want-peace]

alatide sez:

In short, your philosophy is for me and everyone like me, health care insurance isn't a problem. Everyone else just doesn't deserve it.

I am an advocate of personal responsibility. I'm simply saying that there are many in the US who are not as fortunate as you. I ssume that as a self-proclaimed "Christian" you don't care about them. As Jesus said:

bolded mine

You would make a lot more sense if you QUIT assuming, and started responding to the ACTUAL comments. Is that expecting too much???????!!!!!!!!!!

(Or are you a frustrated psychoanalysts wannabe?)

 

[targus]

You just don't understand. That might be true for a 21 year old in excellent health. What about a 50 year old single, unemployed person with a pre-existing condition? When I was your son's age I went to the doctor once every five years whether I needed to or not. Things are very different when you get older. We're talking about covering people who really need health care not 21 YO in good health.

Still waiting for you to confirm that someone who can afford the luxuries that I listed in the OP should be able to first afford to buy medical insurance.