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Regeneration, Effectual Call, and faith

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by lilrabbi, Feb 23, 2005.

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  1. lilrabbi

    lilrabbi New Member

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    "Some believe that the effectual call is an ability giving gift of God that leads to regeneration. That is a minority view to be sure."

    You said this in another thread. I've learned calvinism through RC Sproul/Jonathan Edwards and their ilk. In discussing these issues with a seminary professor friend of mine, he holds this view that you mention in the quote. I'm only 20 and don't presume to be able to write a systematic, but I'm definitely a "regeneration precedes faith" calvinist. If I change anything it will probably be moving into that small minority camp with my sem. prof.

    Would you care to elaborate on that view?

    [Edited to remove name from title. That is agains tthe rules.]

    [ February 23, 2005, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
    #1 lilrabbi, Feb 23, 2005
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Lewis and Demarest defend this view I believe. Hodge talks about a narrow and broad sense of regeneration? Some believe that the effectual call is the giving of ability. Murray says this in his Redemption: Accomplished and Applied. Then adds regeneration as another ability giving act.

    Some see regeneration (life) as the result of faith (Acts 11:17-18; JOhn 20:31; etc) and see the effectual as giving the ability to belief, and regeneration (the giving of life) as the result of belief.
     
    #2 Pastor Larry, Feb 23, 2005
  3. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Lil

    Would this open the possibilty of regeneration and death before faith (Without salvation)?

     
    #3 El_Guero, Feb 23, 2005
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    lilrabbi

    You are correct in stating that regeneration precedes faith. Saving faith itself is the gift of God.
     
    #4 OldRegular, Feb 23, 2005
  5. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    I do hope you are not making this assertion on the basis of Ephesians 2:8 where the gift of God being discussed is salvation, not faith through which salvation was appropriated.
     
    #5 Ben Elohim, Feb 23, 2005
  6. lilrabbi

    lilrabbi New Member

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    Guerero - no it wouldn't open the possibility for spiritual death before faith. Its clear in the Bible that regeneration are simulaneous as far as time goes. We only make the distinction to show logical order.

    Ben - Eph. 2:8, it is talking about the entire gift of salvation, and faith is included in that. Even my "regeneration does not precede faith" friend understands that;)

    Pastor Larry - I'll have to check out Murray and Hodge. Have not heard of the other two. I want to learn more about this view, and I feel kinda bad taking Dr. Myron's (Houghton, my sem. prof. friend) time from more important stuff, so I need to just read some books by those who agree with him in this area.
     
    #6 lilrabbi, Feb 23, 2005
  7. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    Well you assertions that Ephesians 2:8 says that faith is a gift of God will not make it so. It says no such thing. It only says salvation is a gift of God and that we received that gift through the faith. You have absolutely no support for your claim whatsoever to say this particular passage states any such thing.
     
    #7 Ben Elohim, Feb 23, 2005
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I do hope you are not making this assertion on the basis of Ephesians 2:8 where the gift of God being discussed is salvation, not faith through which salvation was appropriated. </font>[/QUOTE]Salvation is solely and completely the work of God. Saving faith, as a part of that salvation, is itself the gift of God. Ephesians 2:8,9 shows this very clearly.
     
    #8 OldRegular, Feb 23, 2005
  9. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    I do hope you are not making this assertion on the basis of Ephesians 2:8 where the gift of God being discussed is salvation, not faith through which salvation was appropriated. </font>[/QUOTE]Salvation is solely and completely the work of God. Saving faith, as a part of that salvation, is itself the gift of God. Ephesians 2:8,9 shows this very clearly. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh and how does Ephesians 2:8,9 show "very clearly" that faith is a gift of God?

    BTW, what is the gender of the word "faith" and what is the gender of the word "this" in the phrase "THIS is a gift of God?" Do they match in the Greek? Are they supposed to match if indeed the word "this" refers back to the word "faith"? Or is there an exception to the rules of grammar here?
     
    #9 Ben Elohim, Feb 23, 2005
  10. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Return this thread to its topic. Start your own topic if you want to discuss Eph 2.
     
    #10 Pastor Larry, Feb 24, 2005
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