Required Setting for Day of the Lord

Jesus can return and put an end to this present universe any day now. It's been that way for almost 2000 years.

 

Amen, Brother KenH -- Preach it! :thumbs:

God does not have to wait 3½-days for the two witnesses to rot.
God does not have to wait 3½-years for His wrath to be spread
around. God the Father can send Jesus to collect His saints
and take them to heaven anytime He wants - the Lord has to
wait for NOTHING.

BTW, When Jesus comes to defeat the Antichrist and set
up the physical Millinnial Messanic Kingdom, the time is known:

1. The Second Advent will be 7-years (2520 days) from the peace treaty for Yisrial (Dan 9:27)

COVENENT from Strong's, 'peace treaty' from Ed:

H1285
בּרית
berîyth
ber-eeth'
From H1262 (in the sense of cutting (like H1254)); a compact
(because made by passing between pieces of flesh):
- confederacy, [con-]feder[-ate], covenant, league.

2. The Second Advent will be 3½-years from the AOD = abomination of desolation, the AOD of the Temple in Jerusalem by Antichrist (Dan 9:27,
Matthew 24:15)

 

I don't have a search engine that will find all occurances
in the KJV1769 Edition of:

day of the Lord
day of Christ
day of Judgement
day of God

so it will be hard for me to do a complete word studyon those
phrases ... never mind, a nearby topic has a link to:]

http://www.biblegateway.com/

where i can find such things. It will take nearly line-by-line
editing and a long time.

I will Assume that 'day of the Lord' has multiple meanings.
Others may do the say thing and show that there
is one and only one 'day of the Lord'

----------------------------------------------
I will show IT IS WRITTEN:
The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period.
The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection.
The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath).
The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)

The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period. FOR IT IS WRITTEN
in Daniel 9:26-27 (nKJV):

"And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah
shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to
come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations
are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with
many for one week; But in the middle
of the week He shall bring an end
to sacrifice and offering. And on
the wing of abominations shall be
one who makes desolate, Even until
the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate."

Please note the lower case "h" in "he" in verse 27
refering not to Messiah in verse 26 but the
to the lower case 'p' "prince that shall come".
Note it is written that the Anti-messiah's seven years
are divided in the middle by the abomination
of desolation, dividing the 7-year period into
to parts each 3½-years long (1260 days, 42 months).

The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection,
FOR IT IS WRITTEN in 1 Thessalonains 4:13-18 (KJV1873):

But I would not have you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning them which are asleep,
that ye sorrow not, even as others which have
no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose
again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus
will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of
the Lord, that we which are alive and remain
unto the coming of the Lord shall
not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from
heaven with a shout, with the voice
of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain
shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath) FOR IT IS WRITTEN in
1 Thessalonains 5:1-10 (KJV1873):

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren,
ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so cometh as
a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say,
Peace and safety; then sudden destruction
cometh upon them, as travail upon
a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness,
that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light,
and the children of the day: we are
not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others;
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night;
and they that be drunken are drunken
in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day,
be sober, putting on the breastplate
of faith and love; and for an helmet,
the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether
we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together,
and edify one another, even as also ye do.

The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)
FOR IT IS WRITTEN in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (KJV1873):

Now we beseech you, brethren,
by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind,
or be troubled, neither by spirit,
nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come, except
there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition;

I have shown IT IS WRITTEN:
The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period.
The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection.
The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath).
The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)
-------------------------------------------

 

Right pew

Mel Miller: // "What is the required setting for the Day of the Lord"
concerns when Jesus will "come as a thief" to destroy
His enemies at Armageddon.//

Ah, then I can't help you.
You need to prove from scripture that there is a time
//when Jesus will "come as a thief" to destroy
His enemies at Armageddon//

Jesus will come as a thief to GET HIS OWN in the
Pretribualtion rapture (at the beginning of the DAY OF THE LORD).
Jesus will NOT //"come as a thief" to destroy
His enemies at Armageddon//

Maybe if you replace 'thief' with it's cousin 'terrorist'
it is easier to see. The terrorist sneaks up on you when you
are unaware. Contrast to a military organization that needs
no secrecy to proceede. When Jesus comes to destroy
His enemies at Armageddon he will be accompanied by
several BILLION horsemen (Rev 19:14). If a few horsemen make
a lot of racket - think think of the racket
that Billions of horses will make! No, Jesus doesn't need
to sneak up on the forces gathered at Har-mageddo.

(BTW, Armageddon is a shortening of Har-Mageddo or in
English 'mount of Mageddo' but Mageddo is a valley
that runs from Mount Carmel southeast to the Jorden river.
What is this 'har-mageddo'?)


Ed Edwards: //God the Father can send Jesus to collect His saints
and take them to heaven anytime He wants - the Lord
has to wait for NOTHING.//

Mel Miller: //That is patently false since "the armies
will be gathered to Armageddon"
before Jesus comes "as a thief" and until which we are to "watch and
keep our clothes on" to show we are not only ready
but worthy to be "kept from
the hour of trial". Rev.3:10-11; Luke 21:34-35.//

Unfortunately, you have made a wrong assumption about
the time //when Jesus will "come as a thief" to destroy
His enemies at Armageddon//. These scriptures talk about
Jesus comming as a thief but do not speak of Armageddon.

Outline of Revelation:
1. Rev 1-3 - the continuing church age
2. Rev 4:1 (By type) - the pretribulation rapture
3. Rev 4:2-19:10 - the Tribulation period on earth
4. Rev 19:11-19:21 - the Glorious Second Coming of Messiah Jesus
5. Rev 20:1-20:6 - the Millinnial Messanic Age
6. Rev 20:7-20:15 - the Great White Throne Judgment
7. Rev 21-22 - The New Heaven and New Earth

So Rev 3:10-11 takes place in the continuing chruch age.
In fact, Rev 3:10-11 is a pretribulation proof text - tee hee!
Rev. 3:10-11 has no reference to the collected armies
at Har-Meggido, not even a hint

Rev 3:10-11 (KJV1769 Edition) The pretrib clues are bolded:

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will
keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon
all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11. Behold, I come quickly; hold that fast which thou hast, that
no man take thy crown.

The emminent return of Christ for the Church Age elect saints
is always a pretrib clue. Here "the HOUR of temption" that
comes on the WHOLE WORLD (not just the Jews) is the 7 years
of the 70th WEEK of Daniel, the 'DAY of the Lord',
the Tribulation PERIOD, etc.

Luke 21:34-36 (part of the Mount Olivet Discourse /MOD/ of
Jesus parallel to Matthew 24-25) is also a pretrib proof text
- tee hee! Luke 21:34-36 has no reference to the collected armies
at Har-Meggido; well maybe the 'snare' is a hint

Luke 21:34-35 (KJV 1769 edition) Again, the pretrib
rapture clues are bolded:

34. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts
be overcharged with sufeiting, and drunkenness, and cares
of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares
35. For as a snare shallit come on all them that dwell on
the face of the whole earth.
36. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be
accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to
pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to
pass

'Accounted' means that on the books you show 'worthy to escape'
NOT that you are 'worthy to escape', but that you are
(thru the grace of God & the Blood of Christ)
recorded as though you are 'worthy to escape'. There are
two ways to "escape all these things that shall come to pass"

(1) die and your soul goes
to heaven to await your glorified body in Christ at the
pretribulation rapture
2) the pretribulation rapture happens
before you die.

Mel Miller: //In this case the Day of the Lord
is called "The DAY OF GOD ALMIGHTY" to which
Jesus refers in Rev.16:15-16 and it is the
"one and only day of the Lord" ... //

Ah, you can't handle the cheese of Revelation 16:15
stuck between two pieces of bread: Rev 16:14 and
Rev 16:16. Where is Jesus when he says Rev 16:15 (yes, it
is RED in my HCSB)? He is in heaven,
Rev 16:14 & 16 happen on earth.

Personally I think Jesus is addressing His faithful
Church Age elect saved church saints who were raptured into
heaven before the Tribulation Period started. Jesus
reminds them what he had said before which they believed.
And then it comes to pass as the nations gather together
for the final battle between Good and Evil.
(Don't you think it strange that all those billions of
chruch age elect saints riding white horses and not a one
is ever mentioned, Jesus does all the zappin'!!!

 

This is incorrect. There are signs that precede the Day of the Lord, and Jesus even told us what they were and commanded us to look for them.

Paul reprimanded the Thessalonians for believing the Day of the Lord had already come by reminding them that he already told them what had to happen first. The Thessalonians should have known that the Day of the Lord couldn't have come, because they didn't see these signs yet.

 

I agree. But then I have to ask you why you bother?

He argues the same way that Dwight Pentacost argues in his book Things to Come. That's actually a compliment of sorts, because Things to Come is a popular college text. How it got to be such a popular college text is beyond me, other than the fact that it's a thick and heavy book. Perhaps colleges select their reading material by the pound these days. Regardless, I believed in pre-trib when I read that book. But Pentacost makes so many leaps of logic and twists so many texts to come to his pre-trib conclusion, that his book is one of the many reasons I began to have doubts in pre-trib!

First of all, the question put to Jesus is (from Matthew 24): 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

The fact that Jesus answers them at all tells you that we will see at least one sign of His coming and of the end of the Age. If the doctrine of imminence is true, then there would be no point in answering them. The answer would be "There are no signs of my coming, or the end of the age."

Jesus gives many signs, however. It would be futile to give such signs as an answer unless we (the elect) will be around to see them. We cannot argue that Jesus is giving the signs for the benefit of the reprobate. Signs such as these are meaningless to the reprobate because they will refuse to acknowledge them. In fact, the very fact that these people will either be ignorant of the signs or refuse to acknowledge them is why Jesus surprises them like a thief. People who are walking in the light will not be surprised like a thief.

Paul shows that there are multiple signs that precede the Day of the Lord.

From Luke.

I won't quote Matthew 24 because it would take a lot of text. But we can see from these passages and a few others that these things must precede the Day of the Lord and His return (not necessarily in sequential order):

1. The falling away
2. The man of sin is revealed.
3. The great tribulation
4. Sun goes dark, moon turns to the color of blood, stars fall from sky, heavens are rolled up like a scroll

THEN Jesus comes in great glory.

 

npetreley: //The fact that Jesus answers them at all tells you
that we will see at least one sign of His coming
and of the end of the Age.//

This is not correct. There are two questions here.
The sign of His coming in Power is the GREAT
TRIBULATION PERIOD. No sign of the end
of the age is given.

npetreley: // If the doctrine of imminence is true, then there would
be no point in answering them. The answer would be
"There are no signs of my coming, or the end of the age."

The doctrine of imminence is true. Since the day of
Pentecost, 33AD (some say 30AD), Jesus could have come
to get the church age elect saints at any time (imminence).
Today also ilmminence is true and Jesus can come anytime
the Father wants Him to come. Nothing is left to be
done by anybody. There is no Tribulation Period before
Jesus collects the church age elect saints - so the Second
Advent of Jesus isn't 3½ or l7 years away.


--------------------------------------

In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
ask three questions:

(in the order asked):
1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
2. What is the sign of His coming?
3. What is the sign of the end of age?

Jesus answers these questions in
Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
some parables.

Here are the answers of Jesus in the
order the questions were asked:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

Here is a summary of the answers
in the order in which events will occur:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Soon, it was in 70AD

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
No signs preceeding the end of the age

2. What is the sign of His coming?
The Sign of His coming will be the
Tribulation period.

Recall the Greek language in which this
Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
So many ands, buts, and other connectors
give the outline. 'Polysyndeton' is a retorical device that uses
(in English) repeated connectors (usually 'and')
instead of an outline. This is most noticable
in the Bible in Genesis 1 and Matthew 24.
I believe the major outline to be:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
Rapture/resurrection which ends the
current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
last days, etc.)

Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes all of the
church age even up to this time.
Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.
The signs of Matthew 24:4-14 are signs
that the church age continues.

 

I think a better question would be: What is the Biblical understanding of the "Day of The Lord"?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Good point.
Here is the writing I'm working on with minimal comments:

-----------------------------------

DAY OF CHRIST in KJV1769 Edition
source: http://www.biblegateway.com/
3 occurances

Philippians 1:10
That ye may approve things that are excellent;
that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

Philippians 2:16
Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice
in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain,
neither laboured in vain.

2 Thessalonians 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled,
neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Thessalonians 2 (Whole Chapter)

DAY OF GOD in KJV1769 Edition
source: http://www.biblegateway.com/
2 occurances

2 Peter 3:12
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved,
and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Revelation 16:14
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles,
which go forth unto the kings of the earth and
of the whole world, to gather them to the battle
of that great day of God Almighty.

DAY OF JUDGMENT in KJV1769 Edition
source: http://www.biblegateway.com/
8 occurances

Matthew 10:15
Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land
of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Matthew 11:22
But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable
for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

Matthew 11:24
But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable
for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men
shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Mark 6:11
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you,
when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under
your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you,
It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha
in the day of judgment, than for that city.

2 Peter 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now,
by the same word are kept in store,
reserved unto fire against the day of judgment
and perdition of ungodly men.

1 John 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect,
that we may have boldness in the day of judgment:
because as he is, so are we in this world.

DAY OF THE LORD in KJV1769 Edition
source: http://www.biblegateway.com/
23 occurances

Isaiah 2:12
For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one
that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up;
and he shall be brought low:


Isaiah 13:6
Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand;
it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.


Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh,
cruel both with wrath and fierce anger,
to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy
the sinners thereof out of it.


Jeremiah 46:10
For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts,
a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries:
and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate
and made drunk with their blood:
for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice
in the north country by the river Euphrates.


Ezekiel 13:5
Ye have not gone up into the gaps,
neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel
to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord.



Ezekiel 30:3
For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near,
a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.



Joel 1:15
Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand,
and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.


Joel 2:1
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm
in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants
of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh,
for it is nigh at hand;



Joel 2:11
And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army:
for his camp is very great: for he is strong that
executeth his word: for the day of the Lord
is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?


Joel 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.


Joel 3:14
Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision:
for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.


Amos 5:18
Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord!
to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord
is darkness, and not light.



Amos 5:20
Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness,
and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?



Obadiah 1:15
For the day of the Lord is near upon all
the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done
unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.



Zephaniah 1:7
Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD:
for the day of the Lord is at hand:
for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.


Zephaniah 1:14
The great day of the Lord is near, it is near,
and hasteth greatly, even the voice
of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.


Zechariah 14:1
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil
shall be divided in the midst of thee.



Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before
the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:



Acts 2:20
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
before the great and notable day of the Lord come:



1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction
of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved
in the day of the Lord Jesus.



2 Corinthians 1:14
As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your
rejoicing, even as ye also are our's in the day of the Lord Jesus.



1 Thessalonians 5:2
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord
so cometh as a thief in the night.


2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;
in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise,
and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


THAT DAY in KJV1769 Edition
source: http://www.biblegateway.com/
219occurances

(list omitted. Many 'that day' refer to the day being discussed,
though some might be prophetic days, one would have to search
through them carefully. This is beyond the scope of this post)

 

I did a fairly exhaustive study on the Day of the Lord. It occurs immediately after the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24). It is heralded by distinctive signs (sun goes dark, moon turns to color of blood, and so on). It is when the Lord returns in glory, and it is when the rapture occurs. It is primarily a day of wrath and indignation, although the elect of Israel shall be protected during this time.

You can find references to the Day of the Lord throughout the Bible, but I recommend Joel, Matthew, Isaiah, Revelation as starting places.

Many people try to move or "spiritualize" references to the Day of the Lord in order to solve a (non) problem. Since it is when Jesus returns, and since it occurrs immediately after the great tribulation, it stands to reason that there will be a future time when we can know (almost) exactly when Jesus will return. All we need to know is when the man of sin is revealed (the abomination of desolation), and conclude that the Day of the Lord (and the return of Jesus) must occur 3 1/2 years later. Since this contradicts the fact that we cannot know the day or hour of His return, they turn the Day of the Lord into a nebulous time period, sometimes even suggesting it spans the entire "tribulation period" (which doesn't exist anywhere in the Bible).

It is a non-problem, however. Jesus said that the great tribulation will be cut short for the sake of the elect. Jesus never says how short. Since we cannot possibly know if Jesus will cut the great tribulation short by 1 month, 2 years, or any other time period, we cannot possibly know the hour or day of His return. So the problem they try to solve doesn't exist, and their attempt at a solution is unbiblical.

 

Npetreley: //All we need to know is when the man of sin
is revealed (the abomination of desolation)//

The assumption that the revelation of the man of sin
is the same as the Abomination of Desolation (AOD)
leads to logical errors. It makes something that needs to
happen at the start of the 7-year Tribulation Period
happen at the same time as the mid-trib AOD.
It compacts the Tribulation Period too much

Better to have these two events at different times.

 

Like I said, there is no such thing as the 7 year tribulation period, so there is no problem.

 

I think it overly optimistic that you can in one sentence think you
can dismantle my post #4. Suggest you learn how to debate,
debate is an activity in which one can be trained;
if one is trainable.

 

I think most people err in not knowing what the historical context of the Day of the Lord is in the Bible by automatically assumung it is some pre-mill Left Behind movie. The Day of The Lord is both described as a day of wrath and judgment against the enemies of God and a day of deliverance for those who are God's people. The ultimate day of the Lord will occur when we see our Lord face to face. For some, it will be like what was described in Amos:

Link

I think Jesus, himself uses much of the same idea when he describes those who did good works for him:

Link

I realize that this is probably not as exciting and interesting as what Lehaye and Hagee have to offer, but it does come from the Bible.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Yes, and they all happened a long, long time ago.

 

There's nothing to debate. The most your post #4 accomplishes is to establish that there is one week (7 years), in the midst of which the abomination of desolation occurs, which is how the great tribulation begins. There's nothing in the Bible that describes this week as a 7 year period of tribulation. The only reason people read into the Bible that the whole week will be one of tribulation is so they can reposition the rapture to the beginning of that week. Even then their premise is entirely flawed. We are not spared tribulation - not even great tribulation. We are spared wrath - and that doesn't begin until the Day of the Lord, which starts immediately AFTER the great tribulation.

 

The only way to come to this conclusion is to assume that Revelation was written before 70 AD. I think you'll find that position extremely difficult to defend.