Resisting the grace of God?

[psalms109:31]

Can you resist something you don't believe in or don't think you need?

Can you or will you strive against, or oppose something you believe in?

Can we resist something we know we need and believe in that we haven't rejected?

Did the young rich ruler reject or resisted the grace of God?

Luke 18 :
22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

23 When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy.

 

[convicted1]

Can you resist something you don't believe in or don't think you need?

Can you or will you strive against, or oppose something you believe in?

Can we resist something we know we need and believe in that we haven't rejected?

Did the young rich ruler reject or resisted the grace of God?

Luke 18 :
22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

23 When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy.

God's grace can be resisted. You can not find anywhere in the bible that God's grace is irresistible.

The rich young ruler thought he could justify himself when he told Jesus he had kept those commandments that Jesus mentioned to him from his youth up. Jesus told him he yet lacked one thing. He broke commandment "numero uno" when he refused to sell his possession, and distribute it amongst the poor, and pick up his cross and follow Him.

 

[Iconoclast]

The unsaved always resist God's grace...

51Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. [/QUOTE]

Those God has elected to salvation are made willing in the day of His power...They are irresistably drawn to salvation according to God's eternal design;

3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

 

[convicted1]

The unsaved always resist God's grace...
51Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

The unsaved don't always resist God's grace. If the unsaved always rejected it, none of us would ever be saved. God's grace can be resisted. Those who die lost, resisted it and died lost. Those who are saved, accepted God's gift of grace.

Those God has elected to salvation are made willing in the day of His power...They are irresistably drawn to salvation according to God's eternal design;

Jeremiah 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

This verse^^^^^^^ does not support irresistible grace whatsoever. It shows that God draws us with His lovingkindness, but does not say He does it irresistibly so.

 

[Iconoclast]

The unsaved don't always resist God's grace. If the unsaved always rejected it, none of us would ever be saved. God's grace can be resisted. Those who die lost, resisted it and died lost. Those who are saved, accepted God's gift of grace.



Jeremiah 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.



The unsaved do always resist..that is why they are unsaved. the saved are drawn effectually by God to salvation...they all come

44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

13For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. [/QUOTE]

This verse^^^^^^^ does not support irresistible grace whatsoever. It shows that God draws us with His lovingkindness, but does not say He does it irresistibly so.

God does not draw everyone Willis...he draws all kinds of men ..yes..but not everyone...You did not respond when i answered your hebrews 2 verse the other day...did you?

 

[seekingthetruth]

I have stated many times that I believe that the young ruler actually did believe that Jesus was the promised messiah. But the young ruler, even though he believed, he rejected the Grace offered to him because the things of the world were too much for him to give up.

I think that people put too much into the fact that this ruler was rich. Even a poor person can love the things of the world more than they do Christ, even though they believe Christ is the messiah. This passage is about loving the things of the world more than Christ, not about rich people. Give a hobo $1000 and he thinks he is rich.

Also, there is nothing slick or underhanded about Christ's offer of Grace to people. When Jesus offered the oppurtunity for the ruler to be saved, he was sincere. Jesus would not have offered that to him if He didnt intend to give it to him. So, the fact that the young ruler remained lost was because he rejected the offer of Christ, and not because God is selective as to whom He saves.

This scripture tells me that the offer of Grace is freely given, and that man can and does reject that offer, even if he believes in Christ.

The devils believe, and they tremble.

John

 

[quantumfaith]

I have stated many times that I believe that the young ruler actually did believe that Jesus was the promised messiah. But the young ruler, even though he believed, he rejected the Grace offered to him because the things of the world were too much for him to give up.

I think that people put too much into the fact that this ruler was rich. Even a poor person can love the things of the world more than they do Christ, even though they believe Christ is the messiah. This passage is about loving the things of the world more than Christ, not about rich people. Give a hobo $1000 and he thinks he is rich.

Also, there is nothing slick or underhanded about Christ's offer of Grace to people. When Jesus offered the oppurtunity for the ruler to be saved, he was sincere. Jesus would not have offered that to him if He didnt intend to give it to him. So, the fact that the young ruler remained lost was because he rejected the offer of Christ, and not because God is selective as to whom He saves.

This scripture tells me that the offer of Grace is freely given, and that man can and does reject that offer, even if he believes in Christ.

The devils believe, and they tremble.

John

:applause::applause::applause:

 

[preachinjesus]

God can call people to salvation and they can, as a reply, turn Him down. This does not demean God's sovereignty or His (eschatological) election.

Gods grace is accessible to all, given to those who submit, and efficacious for beleivers.

 

[psalms109:31]

I don't like being in a box, so i was looking at this from a different angle.

I think it is crazy just like most that something is irresistible when we see people resisting it. So we come up with these crazy concoctions to make it work.

I just believe you can only resist something if you don't think you need it because you can get there by your own doings or you believe that this call isn't for you.

If you are resisting grace it is because you don't believe in it, if you don't believe in it then are you resisting grace or rejected God and His word, that shows His grace?

So could grace be irresistible because you believe in it and it is for you?

Are you rejecting God and His word or resisting grace?

Do any of you strive against, or oppose the grace of God?


Is grace really there for you if you don't believe in it and don't believe it exist for you?

Sorry for the redundant question i just want to word it just right.

The word of God does make us willing to trust in Jesus or I perish.

 

[psalms109:31]

I think the simplest way to put the question maybe would an unbeliever find grace irresistible?

I think that irresistible grace is saying when we really know what grace is we couldn't help but run to it! To say "Jesus save me or I will perish!"

I am not talking about a man's version of it, but the grace of God through Jesus Christ. It is where you are not your salvation, but Jesus is.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

I have stated many times that I believe that the young ruler actually did believe that Jesus was the promised messiah. But the young ruler, even though he believed, he rejected the Grace offered to him because the things of the world were too much for him to give up.

I think that people put too much into the fact that this ruler was rich. Even a poor person can love the things of the world more than they do Christ, even though they believe Christ is the messiah. This passage is about loving the things of the world more than Christ, not about rich people. Give a hobo $1000 and he thinks he is rich.

Also, there is nothing slick or underhanded about Christ's offer of Grace to people. When Jesus offered the oppurtunity for the ruler to be saved, he was sincere. Jesus would not have offered that to him if He didnt intend to give it to him. So, the fact that the young ruler remained lost was because he rejected the offer of Christ, and not because God is selective as to whom He saves.

This scripture tells me that the offer of Grace is freely given, and that man can and does reject that offer, even if he believes in Christ.

The devils believe, and they tremble.

John

Couldn't agree more...:thumbsup: :wavey::smilewinkgrin:
Note: In Paul's defense before Agrippa, he says "believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest." Agrippa replies: "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian". I think this would fall under a similar category. To believe that there is not a true resisting of God's grace and a refusal to believe (salvifically) would seriously require torturing these texts.

 

[convicted1]

The unsaved don't always resist God's grace. If the unsaved always rejected it, none of us would ever be saved. God's grace can be resisted. Those who die lost, resisted it and died lost. Those who are saved, accepted God's gift of grace.



Jeremiah 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.



The unsaved do always resist..that is why they are unsaved. the saved are drawn effectually by God to salvation...they all come





God does not draw everyone Willis...he draws all kinds of men ..yes..but not everyone...You did not respond when i answered your hebrews 2 verse the other day...did you?

Now, in regards to Hebrews 2:9, here is a link to an online parallel bible, and none of these versions has "every" in italics, or in [block form].

http://bible.cc/hebrews/2-9.htm

Even the DoG's version of choice has it "everyone".

English Standard Version (©2001)
Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

 

[convicted1]

The unsaved don't always resist God's grace. If the unsaved always rejected it, none of us would ever be saved. God's grace can be resisted. Those who die lost, resisted it and died lost. Those who are saved, accepted God's gift of grace.



Jeremiah 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.



The unsaved do always resist..that is why they are unsaved. the saved are drawn effectually by God to salvation...they all come





God does not draw everyone Willis...he draws all kinds of men ..yes..but not everyone...You did not respond when i answered your hebrews 2 verse the other day...did you?

One of your biggest heroes doesn't entirely agree with you, Brother:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom44.viii.ii.html

An excerpt from Calvin's commentary on Hebrews 2:9:

That he by the grace of God, etc. He refers to the cause and the fruit of Christ’s death, lest he should be thought to detract anything from his dignity. For when we hear that so much good has been obtained for us, there is no place left for contempt, for admiration of the divine goodness fills the whole mind. By saying for every man, he means not only that he might be ample to others, as Chrysostom says, who brings the example of a physician tasting first a bitter draught, that the patient might not refuse to drink it; but he means that Christ died for us, and that by taking upon him what was due to us, he redeemed us from the curse of death. And it is added, that this was done through the grace of God, for the cause of redemption was the infinite love of God towards us, through which it was that he spared not even his own Son. What Chrysostom says of tasting of death, as though he touched it with his lips, because Christ emerged from death a conqueror, I will not refute nor condemn, though I know not whether the Apostle meant to speak in a manner so refined. There is no doubt but that is a fanciful refinement. To taste food, according to the language of Scripture, is to eat it. See Acts 10:11; 20:11; 23:14. To taste death is to die, to undergo death, and nothing else. See Matthew 16:28; Luke 9:27. Stuart observes that the word for taste in Hebrew is taken in the same sense, and also in classic Greek authors. “For every man,” ὑπὲρ πάντος, that is “man,” mentioned in verse 6; and the “man” there means all the faithful, to whom God in Noah restored the dominion lost in Adam; but this dominion was not renewed to man as a fallen being, but as made righteous by faith. — Ed.

 

[Iconoclast]

One of your biggest heroes doesn't entirely agree with you, Brother:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom44.viii.ii.html

An excerpt from Calvin's commentary on Hebrews 2:9:

Now, in regards to Hebrews 2:9, here is a link to an online parallel bible, and none of these versions has "every" in italics, or in [block form

correct...every is there in the text.........man is in italics...it reads everyone....so either everyone is saved,or not....he is the CAPTAIN OF THEIR SALVATION.......do you see it Willis......he is not the captain of their potential salvation....but an actual salvation.
So Willis......are you saying that everyone is saved???? or everyman is saved??? or are you going to read the rest of the passage and let it explain who it is talking about??//

the church
the brethren,
the sanctified
the seed of Abraham

I suspect you will continue to ignore the context because you want to say everyone without exception......even though the passage does not actual teach it.

here is from your link;
Which God hath given me. Here is pointed out the primary cause of obedience, even that God has adopted us. Christ brings none to the Father, but those given him by the Father; and this donation, we know, depends on eternal election; for those whom the Father has destined to life, he delivers to the keeping of his Son, that he may defend them. This is what he says by John, “All that the Father has given me, will come to me.” (John 6:37.) That we then submit to God by the obedience of faith, let us learn to ascribe this altogether to his mercy; for otherwise we shall never be led to him by the hand of Christ. Besides, this doctrine supplies us with strong ground of confidence; for who can tremble under the guidance and protection of Christ? Who, while relying on such a keeper and guardian, would not boldly disregard all dangers? And doubtless, while Christ says, “Behold, I and the children,” he really fulfills what he elsewhere promises, that he will not suffer any of those to perish whom he has received from the Father. (John 10:28.) 46
We must observe lastly, that though the world with mad stubbornness reject the Gospel, yet the sheep ever recognize the voice of their shepherd. Let not therefore the impiety of almost all ranks, ages, and nations, disturb us, provided Christ gathers together his own, who have been committed to his protection. If the reprobate rush headlong to death by their impiety, in this way the plants which God has not planted are rooted up. (Matthew 15:13.) Let us at the same time know that his own are known to him, and that the salvation of them all is sealed by him, so that not one of them shall be lost. (2 Timothy 2:19.) Let us be satisfied with this seal.