Response to Cessationist Documentary

[Mikey]

Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) offers a critical response to Cessationist, a documentary film arguing that miraculous spiritual gifts have ceased.

 

[37818]

I am a Cessationist.
What I consider Biblical
Cessationism. There is a difference.

Romans 1:16, ". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ."

Romans 1:16, ". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the miracle of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ."

The power, the miracle, are the same word in the text translated!

1 Corinthians 12:28.

 

[37818]

There are Biblical bases for cessation, found in 1 Corinthians 13:8-12.
". . . whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. . . ."

 

[taisto]

There are Biblical bases for cessation, found in 1 Corinthians 13:8-12.
". . . whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. . . ."

The question lies in "when the perfect shall come."
The creationist will label the perfect as being the time when the Canon of scripture was drawn up.
Others will say this is pointing to the 2nd coming of Christ Jesus, the perfect one, who fulfills all things so that nothing is then needed.

I hold to the latter and believe Paul is pointing us to the return of Christ when these things shall cease.

 

[37818]

Sola Scriptura versus the gifts of prophecy and word of knowledge.

If the actual words of God are given and can transcribed there is no such thing as a closed written words God.

Revelation 22:18, ". . . For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: . . ."

 

[37818]

"when the perfect shall come."

Are the gifts of prophecy and word of knowledge still in part, as when the Apostle Paul wrote?

James wrote before this, ". . . Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. . . ."

 

[taisto]

Are the gifts of prophecy and word of knowledge still in part, as when the Apostle Paul wrote?

James wrote before this, ". . . Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. . . ."

I think it depends on what you mean by prophecy. Speaking the scriptures into a person's circumstances saying " thus saith the Lord" is prophetic. God certainly has gifted people to discern and speak His word to others today. A word of knowledge is similar.

Now, some new revelation? God has no need to reveal anymore of his nature to us or what he is doing in this world. He gave us all that is needed when he gave John his Revelation.
As for miracles, God is still doing miracles today. He is healing, restoring, and reconciling what seemed impossible.

 

[37818]

I think it depends on what you mean by prophecy. Speaking the scriptures into a person's circumstances saying " thus saith the Lord" is prophetic. God certainly has gifted people to discern and speak His word to others today. A word of knowledge is similar.

Now, some new revelation? God has no need to reveal anymore of his nature to us or what he is doing in this world. He gave us all that is needed when he gave John his Revelation.
As for miracles, God is still doing miracles today. He is healing, restoring, and reconciling what seemed impossible.

Excuses that explains nothing.

 

[taisto]

Excuses that explains nothing.

What excuse did I make?

I explained to you that prophecy does not necessarily mean a new message. Both the prophets of the OT and the writers of the NT repeat messages to their readers that aren't new revelations, but instead are telling their readers that either blessings or woes will fall upon them if they act according to God's will. This is prophetic and believers still do this today. There are brothers and sisters today who have the gift of expressing these truths to people and congregations. We have those who warn entire nations of God's coming wrath. They are speaking prophetic words that God has provided to us in his word.

Today there are still miracles.

Today we have brothers and sisters who are gifted in speaking many languages. I knew a person who broadcast the gospel speaking 9 different languages. What a gift of tongues.

So, I believe 1 Corinthians 13 is speaking of this ending when Jesus returns as King of Kings to establish his Kingdom on Earth.

What excuse am I making?