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Responsibility Free

NetChaplain

Well-Known Member
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I want to address the title before it’s mistaken. The intention of “responsibility” has to do with the fact that man has no part in effecting nor retaining salvation, only in receiving and manifesting it in the obedience of its doctrines! I suspect that the understanding of many in Christianity may not reach the full implication concerning Grace and the Law, until the Millennium. There is an obvious general lack of differentiation between the administrations of Grace and Law among a great number of those within Protestantism. This has been obvious (especially seen in the term ‘Judeo-Christian’) since the time the Decalogue, which was intended solely for the Jewish nation, was often displayed in numerous places like schools and some governmental establishments.

The Law was works related, in that the Mosaic Covenant between God and believing Israelites (Jn 14:1) provided blessings for works of obedience within the Law, and forgiveness came only from the sacrificial ordinances. This required works for exchange of blessing, but the heart and mind of the believer was still under the dominion of the old man, until the Cross. Belief in and desire for God was present in many, but God always brought them back to fellowship.

Christianity allows nobody but God to effect the Grace of salvation, in which is instilled a new nature from Christ (Col 3:10; 2Pe 1:4) which God uses to keep us desiring after Him (Phil 2:13), thus maintaining desire for fellowship with Him, as we grow in the image of His Son by Their Spirit. Under the Law, blessing came by works of obedience which manifested faith; under Grace, blessing comes by Christ’s expiation for our sin; and obedience manifests faith in Him. Faith and obedience are companion attributes, as persistent disobedience manifests unbelief (distrust).
NC




Responsibility Free

There are vast numbers of Christians who think that Christ, besides pardon, is simply a means to strengthen them to keep the Law. But this is sad and basic ignorance of Christianity. Is a believer then at liberty to break the Law? Of course not. It is one thing to be a debtor to do the whole Law, and another that God can make light of any breach of the Law. Is there then nothing possible between these two conditions—debt to the Law and freedom to break it?

Neither consists with a Christian. He who is free to do his own will, is a lawless man (in reference to the will after the old man—NC). He who is under the Law to do it, describes the condition of a Jew and nobody else. The believer stands on an entirely different ground. He is saved by grace and is called to walk in grace; and the character of righteousness that the Spirit instills within him is of another sort altogether (after the new man or new nature—NC). As it is said to the Philippians, “being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are”—not by the Law, but—“by Jesus Christ unto the glory and praise of God”—by Christ under grace and not under Law. This is not a question solely of justification. I am speaking now about the walk, about the responsibility of the Christian to do the will of the Father (which is a permanent “work” - Phil 2:13—NC); and I say that Christ, not the Law, is the measure of the believer’s walk; which makes all the difference possible.

The Christian, the Gentile never was under the Law; and being positioned in the risen Lord Jesus, now that he believes, he stands on other ground to which the Law does not apply. For this reason, every believer is regarded by the Father as alive from the dead, to bring forth fruit unto God. The Law only deals with a man as long as he lives (Rom 7:1); never after he is dead. “But ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God” (Col 3:3); and that remarkably, is not at all what is said of us, after a second blessing, extreme unction, or any other step of imaginary perfection. We begin with it, and our water baptism declares it as a descriptive testimony.

What this sets forth is Christ’s death and resurrection. If this has any meaning at all for me, it says that I am identified with Him dead and risen. It is no longer the Law dealing with me to try if it can get any good out of me (there never was and never will be goodness in mankind’s nature - Rom 8:7, nor need there be, for now we’re after Christ’s nature—NC). I have relinquished all by receiving the Savior (concerning the old man—NC), and I take my stand in Him dead and risen again as one alive from the dead, to yield myself unto God. Hence, wherever you look, this is the foundation-truth of Christianity, that God has done with mere dealing with the flesh (sin nature; old man—NC). He has another Man, even a new Man (concerning His body—NC), the Lord Jesus, who has risen from the dead and ascended to the right hand of the Father; and the believer is identified with Him. This is practically what the Father has to make good in the heart of the Christian—“Walk ye in Him” (again - Phil 2:13 – Col 2:6—NC).

A new believer (even a seasoned believer now days—NC) may be cast down after receiving the Savior, through the sense of evil he finds in himself (Rom 7:21). He wonders how this can be. He knows how the Lord Jesus deserves to be served and is conscious of how little he serves Him as he ought; he is filled with sorrow about himself, and perhaps begins to doubt whether he be a Christian after all. He has not yet learned his lesson. He is occupied still with the old man; he looks at it and expects to get better (Rom 8:7), hoping that his heart will not have so many bad thoughts, etc., as he used to have; whereas the only strength of the believer is being filled with the Lord Jesus Christ, with all that is lovely in Him before the Father.

The saint, in proportion as he counts himself dead unto sin and alive unto God in the Lord Jesus, and as he enjoys fellowship with Him, lives above himself and his circumstances. There is the exercise of that virtue by which the Christian is said to be dead and risen—the new Life which the Holy Spirit communicates to all who believe (not the life of the Spirit but of Christ by the Spirit – Col 3:4—NC). Only the believer feels what is unlike Christ; but he rests in Who He is to God (because we are as He is - 1Jo 4:17), and this makes him happy and free.


—Wm Kelly (1821-1906)
 

utilyan

Well-Known Member
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I think there is too much obsession and idolatry of "SALVATION". I wonder how folks would behave genuinely without the threat and terrorism to their "Eternal Salvation".

What reward is greater than loving God? A person can Love God today. Therein lies the truth, the sincerity of how much one is satisfied with God.....or at least with what they THINK God is.
 

NetChaplain

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I think there is too much obsession and idolatry of "SALVATION". I wonder how folks would behave genuinely without the threat and terrorism to their "Eternal Salvation".

What reward is greater than loving God? A person can Love God today. Therein lies the truth, the sincerity of how much one is satisfied with God.....or at least with what they THINK God is.
I believe the Christian walk is shown mostly in two ways; desire for Church fellowship and Word study together.
 

Alex2165

Active Member
"Christians" today only "love" Christ for salvation.

I always wonder how many people will be dedicated and truly love Christ without option of salvation?

Such relationship between people and GOD seems to me very typical of the ordinary secular man in traditional relationship and manner between people when one person would not like another if he or she would not receive something they wanted.

Luke 6.32-35
32.If you love those who love you what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.


33.If you do good to those who do good to you what credit is what to you? Even sinners do the same.

34.If you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much again.

35.But love your enemies, do good, and lend expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, He is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.


Acts 20.34-35
35.In all this I have given you an example that by such work we must support the weak, remembering the Words of the Lord Jesus, He Himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.” (Luke 6.38, 14.13-14)

So far "Christians" in general preferred only to receive from GOD everything they want, but give nothing back to the Lord in return.


Luke 11. 28
28.But He said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the Word of GOD and obey it!”

For many, the Word of GOD, His Laws, His Commandments, and obedience to His Statutes, became too hard work, and like anathema.

Convinced themselves that death of Christ automatically saves them, and relying on the general slogans of Christ, such people convinced themselves that they are already saved, forgetting everything that Jesus Christ said about life of a true follower of Christ according to His Commandments, Ordinances, and Statutes.

So it is absolutely clear that "Christians" give lip service to GOD only for His salvation, but not for His Love, for His good deeds and His works, for His righteousness, for His justice, for His teachings, for His mercy, for His compassion, for His blessings, for His wonders in creation of the universe and the Earth and everything that fulfills them.

And never asked themselves a question, "Am I WORTHY of Christ's Sacrifice and His Kingdom?" Do I live according to His Statutes and Commandments?

Luke 20.34-36
34.Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,

35.but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage,

36.neither can they die anymore, they are like angels, and are sons of GOD, being sons of the resurrection. (Matthew 22.23-30) (Mark 12.18-25) (Luke 20.27-36)

Colossians 1.10
10.so that you may walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every GOOD WORK and increasing in the knowledge of GOD,


2Thessalonians 1.11
11.To this end also we pray for you always, that our GOD may count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the WORK OF FAITH with power,
 

NetChaplain

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"Christians" today only "love" Christ for salvation.
Hi Alex, and like your observations and comments, which are typical of many of those who profess Christianity within the last century or so, due to not staying in Church and Word-study but rather prefer to only hear it. Of course, what all see of all professing faith is outwardly, for only God knows the hearts; and due to the multitudinous of false teachings in the last century, those who profess faith but do not remain reading and studying the Word will have a weak or nonexistent outward witness in their lifestyles.

I also believe that there are many who are truly reborn, but have yet to manifest sufficient growth in Christ's image to indicate a genuine faith in Him. I say "indicate" because we cannot know for certainty another's heart and soul; but one who is truly saved will always know the certainty of their salvation, because "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" (Rom 8:16).

It's also my suspicion that the longer time remains unto the Rapture, the more there will be ignorant non-Word-studying professors, many of which will be either unsaved or still babes-in-Christ.
 

utilyan

Well-Known Member
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Folks like to hide what Jesus Christ Teaches with their own teachings ABOUT Jesus Christ. Its like everything Jesus himself teaches is obsolete, abandoned and worthless
 

NetChaplain

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Folks like to hide what Jesus Christ Teaches with their own teachings ABOUT Jesus Christ. Its like everything Jesus himself teaches is obsolete, abandoned and worthless
Whatever we think we understand, it's always tested properly when we continue to read and study the Word for accuracy, then it's useful.
 

Alex2165

Active Member
You pick up a very good verse Net:

"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" (Rom 8:16).

Indeed, this is the Holy Spirit Who bears witness of our spiritual growth, and in turn, when our spirit grow in Statutes and Commandments of the Lord and spiritually became mature, does not requires "spiritual milk" anymore, because it is only for beginners.

Unfortunately the mass of people in the church are beginners no matter how long they had been in the church, they are beginners for life and never will reach full potential maturity of spirituality in Christ. They only concentrated on their own salvation as the church teach them, and nothing else.

No wonder it had been said, "Blind leading another blind, both will fall into the pit."

1Corinthians 3.1-2
1."And so brothers and sisters I could not speak to you as spiritual people, but rather as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.

2.I fed you with milk not solid food, you were not ready for solid food. Even now you are still not ready,"

Hebrews 5.12-14
12."Though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic elements of the Oracles of GOD. You need milk, not solid food,

13.everyone who lives on milk being still an infant is unskilled in the Word of Righteousness.

14.But solid food is for mature, for those whose faculties have been trained by practice to distinguish good from evil."


The traditional corrupt church cannot possibly give to people true spirituality, because its main goal is profit and greed, and not teaching of Christ.

Matthew 23.1-3.10
1."Then Jesus said to the crowds and to His disciples,

2.”The scribes and Pharisees (pastors and clergy) sit on Moses' seat,

3.therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it but do not do as they do, they do not practice what they preach.

10.Nor are you to be called instructors, you have One Instructor, the Messiah."


But those who are study and understood the teaching of Christ, and reject human traditions of the church, and did not fell into the trap of greed and corruption of religious institutions, such people able to "digest solid spiritual food" of the teachings of Christ, and this establishes a connection of our spirit with the Holy Spirit of GOD, and only when we know that we are children of GOD, doing for GOD'S sake that GOD required and wanted as to do, and in such position the true love for GOD truly revealed itself.

Salvation on the other hand is only result and consequence of our own believe, hope, and trust in GOD, faith in His Statutes and Commandments, works of faith, humanitarian deeds, and our life according to His Ordinances.

Matthew 19.16-22
16.Then someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?”

17.And He said to him, “Why do you ask Me about what is good? There is only One Who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the Commandments.”

Commandments of the Lord give Life: (Leviticus 18.5) (Deuteronomy 8.3) (Nehemiah 9.29) (Ezekiel 20.11.13, 33.15) (Matthew 4.4, 19.17) (Luke 4.4) (John 8.51, 12.49-50)

GOD bless you guys.
 

NetChaplain

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Indeed, this is the Holy Spirit Who bears witness of our spiritual growth, and in turn, when our spirit grow in Statutes and Commandments of the Lord and spiritually became mature, does not requires "spiritual milk" anymore, because it is only for beginners.

Unfortunately the mass of people in the church are beginners no matter how long they had been in the church, they are beginners for life and never will reach full potential maturity of spirituality in Christ. They only concentrated on their own salvation as the church teach them, and nothing else.

No wonder it had been said, "Blind leading another blind, both will fall into the pit."
Yes, the Church consists of those mature and immature, and thankfully maturity has no effect on being redeemed, for there will always be many babes-in-Christ. Concerning the comment about the "blind," it's actually in reference to the unsaved (e.g. Pharisees, et.), who have not the faith in Christ, unlike the below passages you've included which concerns those who are saved.
 

Alex2165

Active Member
Matthew 15.12-14
12.Then the disciples approached and said to Him, “Do you know that the Pharisees took offense, when they heard what You said?”

13.He answered, “Every plant that My Heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.

14.Let them alone, they are blind guides of the blind. And if one blind person guides another, both will fall into a pit.”

The expression, "blind leading blind" grasps and reach all those who took responsibility to teach, whoever they are, Pharisees, or Sadducees, or pastors, or anyone else who teach religion, doesn't matter who and what denomination.


You wrote:
" Concerning the comment about the "blind," it's actually in reference to the unsaved (e.g. Pharisees, et.), who have not the faith in Christ,"

First of all no one knows who saved and who unsaved, only GOD knows that, so give GOD His right to judge, because He is the One Who saves and Who rejects, not you, or anyone else for that matter.

Second, never stereotype people. You placed Pharisees into "unsaved" category. You may be forgot who gave Christ the honors after He was crucified, and who buried Him.

Two Pharisees buried Christ, " Joseph of Arimathea who was a disciple of Jesus, though a secret one" and " Nicodemus who had at first come to Jesus by night" (John 19.38-42)

Tell me, where have been at this moment, after crucifixion of Christ, His disciples and all those who followed and believed in Him?

None of them were present. They did not buried their Teacher, their Healer, and their Savior, but only two Pharisees took him from the cross and buried Him respectfully according to Jewish tradition at the time.

And I am 100% sure that they are not the only ones who followed and honored Jesus Christ and believed in Him. Many other people from different religious groups and sects turned to Christ in large numbers, not mentioned in this number those who turned themselves from idol-worshiping (gentiles), and they also became dedicated and faithful followers of Christ.
 

NetChaplain

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Matthew 15.12-14
12.Then the disciples approached and said to Him, “Do you know that the Pharisees took offense, when they heard what You said?”

13.He answered, “Every plant that My Heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.

14.Let them alone, they are blind guides of the blind. And if one blind person guides another, both will fall into a pit.”

The expression, "blind leading blind" grasps and reach all those who took responsibility to teach, whoever they are, Pharisees, or Sadducees, or pastors, or anyone else who teach religion, doesn't matter who and what denomination.
I agree pretty much with your comments, but I was just pointing out that the passages you presented (1Co 3; Heb 5) concerned all who were saved and required more understanding.

Also wanted to share this:

"They be blind leaders of the blind; the people that hearken to them, and are followers of them, are "blind," as to any true sense of themselves, their state, and condition by nature; as to any spiritual, saving knowledge of God; as to any acquaintance with the Messiah, and the method of salvation by him; as to the Spirit of God, and the work of grace, regeneration, and sanctification upon the soul; as to the Scriptures of truth, and doctrines of the Gospel; and the "leaders" of them were as "blind" as they: by whom are meant the Scribes and Pharisees, the learned doctors and rabbins of the Jewish nation; who thought themselves very wise and knowing, yet they were blind also; and none more than they. It was an old tradition {g} among the Jews, "that there should be "blind teachers" at the time when God should have his tabernacle among them." This was predicted, in Isaiah 42:19 and all such leaders and teachers are blind, who, notwithstanding their natural abilities, and acquired parts, are in a state of unregeneracy; and have nothing more than what they have from nature, or have attained to at school; and as apparently all such are, who lead men from Christ, to mere morality, and to a dependence upon their own righteousness for justification, which was the darling principle of the blind leaders in the text.

"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch; of ignorance and error, immorality and profaneness, distress, if not despair, temporal ruin and destruction; which was notoriously verified in the Jewish people, and their guides: and of eternal damnation, the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; what else can be expected?" -John Gill
 

Alex2165

Active Member
You are still dividing people on saved and unsaved, this is wrong thing to do, because you do not know who actually saved and who does not.

Concerning John Gill, I do not know who he is and really do not care, but his statement, " It was an old tradition {g} among the Jews, "that there should be "blind teachers" at the time when God should have his tabernacle among them." completely false and fake statement.

There is no such "old Jewish tradition," never been and never will be. I studied Jewish traditions very well and learn a lot about Biblical and non Biblical traditions of the Jews, and talk to many rabbis and to ordinary Jews, and I never heard about this particular "old tradition" from anyone one of them in my long years of study the Jewish laws.

I give you a very good advice Net, read less John Gills and others like him, and read more the Holy Scriptures of the Bible, because only Bible can guide and direct you to GOD. It contains everything that Christian should know, believe, and obey.

I also noticed a certain trend among ministers and pastors in the Christian churches that they made up things, lie, fabricate stories, and fantasizing a lot. In the church of Christ which I used to attended for a short while was a pastor who sometimes made up false stories and claims.

I actually remember very well when he spoke about one Jewish tradition which said that only those who related to Abraham will be saved by GOD.

He never even being among Jews, not mentioning that he knew practically nothing about their believes and traditions, but made a ridiculous and false claim concerning one Jewish tradition that actually never existed.

But as a matter of fact, Jews are rarely talk about salvation and do not put it on the first place and obsess about as Christian do. Jews mostly repent in their services, and then they pray they include in their prayers repentance, confession, and a plea for salvation of their souls before the Lord. They have excellent prayer Books in English and Hebrew, reading them is a great joy and uplifting of spirit.

Fake Christian stories, wrong accusations, and false assumptions, mostly formulated against Jews are very common in Christian churches, and I witness all of that.

And this is again relates to the passage that I introduce in this thread, that one blind who leads another blind both will fall in the pit.

Do not pay attention to myths and fake stories, follow the Lord, means read only His Words and only His Statements, and you never will be confused and will stay on the right path to GOD.
 

NetChaplain

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You are still dividing people on saved and unsaved, this is wrong thing to do, because you do not know who actually saved and who does not.
Ture, Scripture teaches no man can truly know another's heart like God, but all who believe will know the certainty of salvation concerning their selves (Rom 8:16). Therefore what we see outwardly of one another are indications and not necessarily proofs and confirmations of possessing salvation.

Though are understandings differ in much, I appreciate your sincerity for the truth of the Word!

God's blessings to your Family!
 
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