Restoring Public Order

Dragoon68 · Sep 2, 2005

Here's an article from yesterday continuing to report on-going military operations to help restore public order in the New Orleans area.

Article by Donna Miles for
American Forces Press Service:
Defense Leaders Define Military Security Duties During Katrina Response

WASHINGTON, Sept. 1, 2005 – The National Guard troops reporting for duty in the Gulf region to help maintain security are trained professionals, many who serve as civilian law enforcement officers when not on military duty, the chief of the National Guard Bureau told reporters today.

Army Lt. Gen. H Steven Blum said the Guard forces aren't simply troops with no police skills pulled into the mission; they're bringing solid expertise to the mission and an understanding that they're supporting existing law enforcement authorities, not replacing them.

“They are military police, trained badge-carrying law enforcement officers that discharge their duties when called to active duty, both here at home or overseas,” he said. “Many of these people are civilian law enforcement officers. When they are not in military uniform, they're in civilian law enforcement uniform. So they come with great expertise and great sensitivity to the fact that they are there in support of the existing law enforcement agency.”

An estimated 1,400 National Guard military police – a force the size of the entire New Orleans Police Department -- are arriving in New Orleans today, with an equal number to arrive Sept. 2 and 3, Assistant Secretary of Defense Paul McHale said during a Department of Homeland Security news briefing on hurricane-relief operations.

There, they will join 2,800 National Guard police already on the ground to help maintain security, prevent looting and control what Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff called “isolated incidents of criminality.”

Chertoff confirmed that a National Guard soldier was shot in the leg in New Orleans Aug. 31. The shooter was arrested, Chertoff said.

Blum emphasized that the Guard is not enforcing martial law, as some media outlets have reported. “This is helping a police force that is overstretched with the extraordinary challenge that its facing,” he said.

The Posse Comitatus Act prohibits active-duty forces from conducting law enforcement operations, but does not cover National Guard members operating under their state governors’ control. This enables Guard forces, who often come from the communities they are serving, to work side by side with law enforcement officials in ways active-duty forces simply can't, McHale said.

Before the hurricane-recovery effort is complete, Blum said, he expects to see National Guard soldiers and airmen “from every state and territory in our nation responding to this national catastrophe.”

“I think that sends a very strong message that when you call out the National Guard, you call out America,” he said.
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This, especially at first, is not an easy job. Let's give these troops our public support and thanks for helping to restore public order in a situation beyond the ability of local law enforcement. Many, if not all these troops, have also been to Iraq in recent times. I promise you facing a overwhelming crowd of angry, and potentially violent, people takes courage, calmness, and discipline. It's easy to talk about but damn hard to do.

KenH · Sep 2, 2005

The troops do great.

It the politicians and those they have placed in positions of authority and are calling the shots in the federal government that stink.

poncho · Sep 2, 2005

That's what I have been trying to say all along Ken.

LorrieGrace · Sep 2, 2005

Dragoon,

Dragoon68 · Sep 2, 2005

Originally posted by KenH:
The troops do great.

It the politicians and those they have placed in positions of authority and are calling the shots in the federal government that stink.
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With respect to this issue, it seems the responsible persons at the state and federal level issued the necessary orders to send in National Guard troops from the begining and many more as soon as it was determined they were needed because of the unexpected violence.

I know some for sure they were already on site by Tuesday or Wednesday because one was shot on Wednesday by one of the "refugees" and then the others apprehended the one that shot him. I guess a "mob" of around 10,000 people with some embedded violent characters was a bit difficult for the initial 70 or so to handle even being SRT qualified. I'd be inclined to seek some additional backup myself.

It's taken another day or two to increase the troop strength and it's still being increased to make sure enough are available to handle the situation.

The people responding to this disaster weren't expecting to have to fight off a bunch of "bad guys" before they could render aid.

Daisy · Sep 3, 2005

I don't understand the people who shot the relief workers and the troops. There must be some kind of twisted rationale for it, but I just can't come up with anything. Even "evil" doesn't really cover it.

I'm sure the vast majority of the refugees are relieved and grateful to see the troops (happy isn't exactly the right word for the terrible circumstances).

just-want-peace · Sep 3, 2005

Chertoff confirmed that a National Guard soldier was shot in the leg in New Orleans Aug. 31. The shooter was arrested, Chertoff said.
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Under these conditions, anybody firing at the "authorities" ought to be shot right then!!

The standing order to the police should be if you witness the act, shoot to kill!

Harsh? Yer dern tootin! But I'm sick of good people getting wounded or killed just because this bleeding heart society decides that these killers "have their rights".

As far as I'm concerned, they give up those rights when they assault the rights of somebody else!

And also, these bleeding hearts need to get through their head that "RIGHTS" also carry "RESPONSIBILITIES"!!!!!!

OldRegular · Sep 3, 2005

Has anyone thought that there might be real terrorists in New Orleans taking advantage of the situation.

El_Guero · Sep 3, 2005

Give me a BREAK!!!!

El_Guero · Sep 3, 2005

OldRegular

That conjecture deserves an apology or a real source.

fromtheright · Sep 3, 2005

JWP,

The standing order to the police should be if you witness the act, shoot to kill!

Amen. Personally, I think there should be NG troops on rooftops with sniper rifles taking out looters (especially those not taking food, but just "stuff"). Maybe a little excessive but I'll bet the looting would drop off big time!

El Guero,

That conjecture deserves an apology or a real source.

Why is it out of line to wonder this? I've been worried the last few days that this would be an ideal situation for terrorists to take advantage of. What is a "real source"? Are only "real sources" allowed to voice such concerns? I certainly don't think any of what we've seen have been terrorist acts, and I don't even know what a terrorist might do except, God forbid, fly an airliner into the Astrodome, but it is not foolhardy or irresponsible to have such a concern.

El_Guero · Sep 3, 2005

I think you miss what a hurricane is.

A hurricane is an ACT OF GOD.

Could terrorists have dreamed of taking advantage of the situation? Possibly, but doubtful.

BUT, the terrorists would have been as dazed, confused, and crazed as everyone else in New Orleans.

Dragoon68 · Sep 3, 2005

Here's some insight into when and how order was restored in the New Orleans Convention Center and why it took a few days to get that accomplished.

Extract of Comments by LTG H. Steven Blum, Chief, National Guard Bureau on 3 Sep 2005:

Good morning gentlemen. I just got back late last evening from New Orleans and the stricken areas in Mississippi along the Gulf Coast, and if you want I'll give you a quick assessment of what we've seen--Dramatic changes in the last 36 hours. The security situation in New Orleans continues to improve. The most contentious issues were lawlessness in the streets, and particularly a potentially very dangerous volatile situation in the convention center where tens of thousands of people literally occupied that on their own. We had people that were evacuated from hotels, and tourists that were lumped together with some street thugs and some gang members that -- it was a potentially very dangerous situation.

We waited until we had enough force in place to do an overwhelming force. Went in with police powers, 1,000 National Guard military policemen under the command and control of the adjutant general of the State of Louisiana, Major General Landreneau, yesterday shortly after noon stormed the convention center, for lack of a better term, and there was absolutely no opposition, complete cooperation, and we attribute that to an excellent plan, superbly executed with great military precision. It was rather complex. It was executed absolutely flawlessly in that there was no violent resistance, no one injured, no one shot, even though there were stabbed, even though there were weapons in the area. There were no soldiers injured and we did not have to fire a shot.

Some people asked why didn't we go in sooner. Had we gone in with less force it may have been challenged, innocents may have been caught in a fight between the Guard military police and those who did not want to be processed or apprehended, and we would put innocents' lives at risk. As soon as we could mass the appropriate force, which we flew in from all over the states at the rate of 1,400 a day, they were immediately moved off the tail gates of C-130 aircraft flown by the Air National Guard, moved right to the scene, briefed, rehearsed, and then they went in and took this convention center down.

Those that were undesirable to re-enter the convention center were segregated from the people that we wanted to provide water, shelter and food. Those people were processed to make sure they had no weapons, no illicit [drugs], no alcohol, no contraband, and then they were escorted back into the building. Now there's a controlled safe and secure environment and a shelter and a haven as they await movement out of that center for onward integration to their normal lives.

It's a great success story -- a terrific success story.
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Hat's off to these professional soldiers for pulling this off without having to kill or injure anyone. It's not an easy accomplishment. I'll bet the peaceful folks among all those in the Convention Center were very glad to see them.

We all wish the lawlessness there had never happened but it did and the responsibility for it rests squarely with those that committed the violence. Hopefully, if it's possible, they can be identified and prosecuted for their crimes. Realistically, that will be very difficult.

fromtheright · Sep 3, 2005

EG,

A hurricane is an ACT OF GOD.

Of course, I understand that. I'm not saying the terrorists caused the hurricane, only that sitting back somewhere in their little caves or roach-holes, they can't miss the opportunity this creates for sowing even MORE despair and destruction in an already desperate situation, and it's not unreasonable to be concerned that they might be looking at such. No, it should not be the focus of our response to the hurricane, but someone should be looking at this possibility.

Dragoon68 · Sep 3, 2005

Originally posted by El_Guero:
I think you miss what a hurricane is.

A hurricane is an ACT OF GOD.

Could terrorists have dreamed of taking advantage of the situation? Possibly, but doubtful.

BUT, the terrorists would have been as dazed, confused, and crazed as everyone else in New Orleans.
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I agree with you that this was a natural disaster and that, most likely, none of the subsequent levee system failures were caused by any deliberate acts of man either by mischievious, criminal, or terroristic behavior. Terrorist involvement in something like this seems very unlikely because, if nothing else, the natural disaster would overshadow and rob them of their primary goals. Terrorist want attention and credit for what they do. They want people to fear them. On the other hand, all possibilities should be considered even if just to remain alert. Adding misery upon misery is not beyond evil minds sworn to destroy us.

fromtheright · Sep 3, 2005

Dragoon,

Terrorist involvement in something like this seems very unlikely because, if nothing else, the natural disaster would overshadow and rob them of their primary goals. Terrorist want attention and credit for what they do. They want people to fear them. On the other hand, all possibilities should be considered even if just to remain alert. Adding misery upon misery is not beyond evil minds sworn to destroy us.

Good point. Even if they did something to heighten the despair, it still might not draw the focus of attention, which is apparently what they seek. And, yes, remaining alert is really more of what I was thinking of, not to divert our own attention from the obviously more immediate and terribly pressing problems faced there now.

OldRegular · Sep 3, 2005

Originally posted by El_Guero:
OldRegular

That conjecture deserves an apology or a real source.
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Why an apology? An apology to whom?

Whose honor are you defending here, the terrorists?

Furthermore, 50% or more of the stuff posted on this Forum is conjecture.

Daisy · Sep 4, 2005

They refused to give fresh water to "undesirables"? That doesn't seem right....

fromtheright · Sep 4, 2005

Who used the term "undesirables"? I haven't heard this.

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