Revelation 1:8, . . .

[37818]

22 minutes

 

[Charlie24]

22 minutes

I can't really comment on the versions except to say I was raised from a child with the 1611 KJV.

I have memorized the key words in the KJV, looked them up in the Greek, I know what they mean.

I have tried other versions and found myself totally lost without those key words I have memorized over the years.

There are other good versions, but it depends greatly on what you learned with.

 

[Logos1560]

At Revelation 1:8, the Tepl manuscript, the Latin Vulgate, Wycliffe's Bible, 1538 Coverdale's Duoglott, American Bible Union N. T., Wesley's N. T., English translations of the Peshitta, Majority Text, Gary Zeolla’s Analytical-Literal Translation, Charles Wiese’s translation of Revelation from the Byzantine text, 2013 Eastern Orthodox New Testament from the 1904 Patriarchal Text, 2016 translation by Wilbur Pickering, and some other translations identify the "Alpha and Omega" as the "Lord God."

 

[37818]

I can't really comment on the versions except to say I was raised from a child with the 1611 KJV.

I have memorized the key words in the KJV, looked them up in the Greek, I know what they mean.

I have tried other versions and found myself totally lost without those key words I have memorized over the years.

There are other good versions, but it depends greatly on what you learned with.

In Revelation 1:8, KJV is missing "God" in "Lord God."

 

[Conan]

What do the manuscripts of Revelation say? What is there testimonies?

 

[Deacon]

What do the manuscripts of Revelation say? What is there testimonies?

1:8 Ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ Ἄλφα καὶ τὸ Ὦ, λέγει κύριος ὁ θεός, ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος, ὁ παντοκράτωρ.


"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "the one who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."


Revelation
1:8b txt λεγει κυριος ο θεος ℵ A C P 046 91 93 469 792 911 922 1006 1424 1611 1678 1734 1828

1841 1854 1888 2053 2062 2065 2070 2080 2081 2351 2814 2846 ith vg syr cop arm-m geo arab-e,w

Ath MarcD Epiph EustA Prim TR-cp,Ben,Stemg AN H F BG RP SBL TH ECM NA28 {\}


‖ λεγει ο κυριος variant - itar eth arm-c TR

‖ κυριος ο θεος 2074 [Lenski] ‖ ο θεος 2329 ‖ omit λεγει κυριος ο θεος 2050 (Hipp) ‖ lac 051 2344 1778

 

[Conan]

1:8 Ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ Ἄλφα καὶ τὸ Ὦ, λέγει κύριος ὁ θεός, ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος, ὁ παντοκράτωρ.


"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "the one who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."


Revelation
1:8b txt λεγει κυριος ο θεος ℵ A C P 046 91 93 469 792 911 922 1006 1424 1611 1678 1734 1828

1841 1854 1888 2053 2062 2065 2070 2080 2081 2351 2814 2846 ith vg syr cop arm-m geo arab-e,w

Ath MarcD Epiph EustA Prim TR-cp,Ben,Stemg AN H F BG RP SBL TH ECM NA28 {\}


‖ λεγει ο κυριος variant - itar eth arm-c TR

‖ κυριος ο θεος 2074 [Lenski] ‖ ο θεος 2329 ‖ omit λεγει κυριος ο θεος 2050 (Hipp) ‖ lac 051 2344 1778

Thank you Deacon! It's clear a scribe pre-dating the TR accidentally skipped over the words ho Theos deleting them. Thank you for the clear evidence!

 

[37818]

Re: Revelation 1:8, . . . κυριος ο θεος . . .

TR changed it to, . . . ο κυριος . . .

 

[Van]

"Do not confuse me with facts, my mind is made up. I will deny any evidence my view might need any correction."
There is little to be gained by casting pearls before a stone wall.

 

[37818]

@Van, quoting closed mindedness is not helping.

 

[Van]

Casting pearls before a stone wall is not helping.

 

[Conan]

Casting pearls before a stone wall is not helping.

I was able to learn the correct reading from the thread. I did not know the variant before hand.

 

[Van]

I was able to learn the correct reading from the thread. I did not know the variant before hand.

Referring to a "correct reading" (Revelation 1:8) without indicating which version, KJV or other, is what some might say is "faint praise."

 

[Conan]

Referring to a "correct reading" (Revelation 1:8) without indicating which version, KJV or other, is what some might say is "faint praise."

The next time I read the Book of Revelation it might be the KJV. Now I know it has a Variant Reading @1:8 which is not correct . I now know the correct reading .

 

[Van]

The next time I read the Book of Revelation it might be the KJV. Now I know it has a Variant Reading @1:8 which is not correct . I now know the correct reading .

Revelation 1:8 KJV
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 1:8 NASB
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who [fn]is to come, the Almighty.”

NET Footnote:
33tc The shorter reading “Omega” (ὦ, w) has superior ms evidence ({א1 A C 1611}) to the longer reading which includes “the beginning and the end” (ἀρχὴ καὶ τέλος or ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ τέλος, arch kai telo" or Jh arch kai to telo"), found in א*,2 1854 2050 2329 2351 ĎA lat bo. There is little reason why a scribe would have deleted the words, but their clarifying value and the fact that they harmonize with 21:6 indicate that they are a secondary addition to the text.

Also note the KJV has "the Lord" whereas the NASB has "the Lord God."

 

[Conan]

Revelation 1:8 KJV
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 1:8 NASB
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who [fn]is to come, the Almighty.”

NET Footnote:
33tc The shorter reading “Omega” (ὦ, w) has superior ms evidence ({א1 A C 1611}) to the longer reading which includes “the beginning and the end” (ἀρχὴ καὶ τέλος or ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ τέλος, arch kai telo" or Jh arch kai to telo"), found in א*,2 1854 2050 2329 2351 ĎA lat bo. There is little reason why a scribe would have deleted the words, but their clarifying value and the fact that they harmonize with 21:6 indicate that they are a secondary addition to the text.

Also note the KJV has "the Lord" whereas the NASB has "the Lord God."

Thank you! Two variant readings in verse 8.

But look at the superior listing of the evidence in Deacons source compared to the scant citations in the Net Bible. Don't get me wrong I appreciate your post but always found the Net Bible's short apparatus lacking.

 

[JesusFan]

Thank you! Two variant readings in verse 8.

But look at the superior listing of the evidence in Deacons source compared to the scant citations in the Net Bible. Don't get me wrong I appreciate your post but always found the Net Bible's short apparatus lacking.

Is that referring to the Father or to Lord Jesus there?

 

[Conan]

Is that referring to the Father or to Lord Jesus there?

Both. The Lord God Almighty.

 

[JesusFan]

seems to be though more clearly showing to us Jesus taking on very titles used to describe Yahweh of the OT, as know JW see that as only being the father speaking there

 

[Deacon]

Revelation 1:8 KJV
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 1:8 NASB
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who [fn]is to come, the Almighty.”

NET Footnote:
33tc The shorter reading “Omega” (ὦ, w) has superior ms evidence ({א1 A C 1611}) to the longer reading which includes “the beginning and the end” (ἀρχὴ καὶ τέλος or ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ τέλος, arch kai telo" or Jh arch kai to telo"), found in א*,2 1854 2050 2329 2351 ĎA lat bo. There is little reason why a scribe would have deleted the words, but their clarifying value and the fact that they harmonize with 21:6 indicate that they are a secondary addition to the text.

Also note the KJV has "the Lord" whereas the NASB has "the Lord God."

Revelation 1:8 (NA28) Ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ ἄλφα καὶ τὸ ὦ, λέγει κύριος ὁ θεός, ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος, ὁ παντοκράτωρ.

Revelation 1:8 (TR1550MR) εγω ειμι το α και το ω αρχη και τελος λεγει ο κυριος ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος ο παντοκρατωρ

~~~~~~~~~

Apparatus [courtesy of David Robert Palmer's Translation of Revelation]
Revelation 1:8a txt το ω ℵ² A C P 046 91 93 469 792 911 922 1006 1424 1611 1678 1734 1841 2053 2062 2070 2080 2846 ith vgms syrph,h arm eth geo slav-b Epiph; Ambr Varim Prim TR-cp,Ben AN HF BG RP SBL TH ECM NA28 {A}

‖ το ω αρχη και τελος ℵ* 1828 1854 1888 2050 2065 2074 2081* 2351 2814 itar,gig,t vg-am,fu,harl,cle,st,ww A cop AnastA Clem IohDam IohScyth Andrew; Apr Beat TR*

‖ το ω η αρχη και το τελος 2081c 2329 Did Hippvid arab-e

‖ το ω αρχη και το τελος 2074

‖ lac 051 1778.

~~~~~~~~~~

* When the reading of the Textus Receptus is divided among editions, I cite the following 9 editions, with the sigla of TR and dash. The default plain TR sigla alone means Scriv, and only when TR editions differ from Scriv are the others listed. For example, if Stemg is listed for a reading, you may assume that Stetxt is with Scriv.:

TR-Scriv - F. H. A. Scrivener's 1894 edition
TR-cp - the Complutensian Polyglot (1514).
TR-Eras - all five editions of Erasmus as Eras2,3 etc
TR-Ald - Aldus 1518
TR-Col - Colinaeus 1534
TR-Ste - the Stephens (or Stephanus) 1550 edition
TR-Bez - Beza 1598 edition
TR-Elz - Elzevir 1633 Edition but also sometimes 1624 when different
TR-Ben - Johann Bengel 1734 edition

Again: [source: David Robert Palmer's Translation of Revelation]