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Romans 2:6-10

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by JAMES2, Apr 2, 2002.

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  1. JAMES2

    JAMES2 New Member

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    I posted this question on the "other religions" section and received no response, so I will try it here.
    I had a Catholic friend point this out and ask me this question:
    If this passage refers ONLY to rewards in heaven, and not with salvation, aren't you reading your theology into the text, instead of letting the verse speak for itself?

    In other words, since the Reformed position is that this passage of scripture refers to rewards in heaven, not salvation, because salvation is based on the imputed righteousness of Christ the questions becomes, WHAT REWARDS? How can a person IMPROVE on the Righteousness of Christ? Is the Reformed position reading what they want into the text since the text is referring to "eternal life" or eternal punishment?
    Some thoughts from the Reformed brethern, or others would be appreciated?
    James2
     
    #1 JAMES2, Apr 2, 2002
  2. Brutus

    Brutus Member
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    James;as I sit here reading this passage and I see that the focus is on the fact that God will judge all peoples.What do you think?
     
    #2 Brutus, Apr 2, 2002
  3. JAMES2

    JAMES2 New Member

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    Brutus:
    I think you know what I think. I was wondering what some of the other readers think. Do the Catholic's have a valid position? Of course, i don't think so. The passage does say everyone will be judged.

    The question is on what grounds. Your own personal works, or on the righteousness of Christ.
    I believe the grounds of salvation is the righteousness of Christ. I thought maybe there may be alot of people that disagree with that and i would like to hear their reasoning.
    James2
     
    #3 JAMES2, Apr 2, 2002
  4. Jack Lewis

    Jack Lewis New Member

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    When I see questions of this sort it illustrates something that many of us miss. Our salvation is the work of God, our part was faith, and depending on how Calvinist you are, even most or all of that is to be credited to God. Looking at the passage, and keeping in mind that all of our righteousness is God working through us, does the passage describe what we do, or what God has done through us? Is the passage descriptive of actions or symptoms? Is "well doing" what one groups has done or what God has done through them? If the latter, then the passage could be speaking of salvation, without doing damage to the truth of salvation by faith, not of works.

    Let's say I have 2 kids, and one has the measles. I let him stay home, and give him 7-up to drink to keep up his carbohydrates and settle his stomach. Well the other kids wants "rewarded" too. (bear with me) But I explain to him that the other gets to stay home because he has the measles, see the red spots, not because he's done anything to be rewarded. Next thing I know the second child has taken a red magic marker and made red spots on his face, so he can stay home and drink 7-up. He still doesn't understand that it's not about what the other child did or didn't do, but the condition that he is in. The condition produces the symptoms, which we refer to.

    Righteousness is the symptom of God's indwelling, it's not something we are capable of ourselves. Distinguishing two groups based on that symptom, in reference to their ultimate destination, doesn't necessarily imply the conditions are self induced.

    Of course this does violate some basic rules of homiletics, namely a passage should be interpreted in light of what it would have meant to the original readers. But I find many passages that are phrased this way, that seem to be done so that, for those who cannot comprehend the deeper concepts of predestination, it leaves them with an admonition to do good works, but as one studies deeper one finds a confirmation of the sovereignty of God.

    Jack Lewis
    radioJesus.com
     
    #4 Jack Lewis, Apr 3, 2002
  5. JAMES2

    JAMES2 New Member

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    Jack Lewis:
    I agree that if that passage is read without keeping in mind the other 1,000 places that talk about works and salvation, one might get the impression that a person is saved by the works they do. And of course, that is what happens. It is read and people say, see it says right here that we are judged by our works. If we do good we are saved etc,.

    The main point that needs to be understood is that without being regenerated in the first place, having the free gift of faith (something experienced, not "accepted",) being justified by faith and having the righteousness of Christ imputed to us, NO ONE would be doing ANY GOOD deeds or works in the first place. So everyone will be judged for works. Those that are lost will have their works (which will be judged as filthy rags) judged and will receive their reward, which is hell. The others, because they were elected before the foundation of the world and had as the grounds of their salvation, the righteousness of Christ imputed to them, will be, because of the free, unmerited, gift of God, be given their reward -- salvation.
    The works a regenerated person does, only has worth because it is the Holy Spirit that enables the person to do the work in the first place.

    So I would say that our salvation is from God Alone plus nothing from man. Of course, even our faith is a gift so that we can't boast. Also, just like a dead man can't reach out and accept a gift, a person before they are regenerated by the sovereign act of God, according to HIS own good pleasure, can't reach out and "accept" faith. He can only experience faith as that free gift. One justified and "saved" it is impossible to lose your salvation, unless you think that God makes bad choices and saves someone then that person can over rule God's sovereign act by something he does. A rather absurd, God-dishonoring position to hold, to say the least.

    [ April 03, 2002, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]
     
    #5 JAMES2, Apr 3, 2002
  6. Brutus

    Brutus Member
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    AMEN!!! excellent James :D :D
     
    #6 Brutus, Apr 3, 2002
  7. JAMES2

    JAMES2 New Member

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    Brutus:
    Thank you. You are too kind.
    James2
     
    #7 JAMES2, Apr 4, 2002
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