Salvation of the Soul (Page One)

[J. Jump]

I guess you won't avoid it either then. Unless you have been perfectly obedient and faithful in your lifetime so far.

It's not about being perfect Steaver it's about being blameless. We will never be perfect this side of death. It is an impossibility. However we can be blameless. When I do mess up and I am convicted by the Holy Spirit I John says if I will confess my sins He is faithful and just to forgive me. That allows me to be blameless.

But if I don't confess my sins when I am convicted then I have blame that will be on my account.

As far as knowing whether your work is wood, hay or stubble that is a difficult question to answer. I think the closer we get to being made into the image of Christ and being grown up from glory to glory the more we will be able to discern that. However Scripture tells us that there are some that will stand before the Judge on that day thinking they had works of righteousness, but they will in fact be told they were works of iniquity (wood, hay and stubble).

 

[steaver]

(Jump)....You are right it is very sad and you are about as confused as they come. The text says IS ABLE TO. It DOES NOT say "it has, it is and it is able" as you presume. Seriously . . . IT SAYS IS ABLE TO - THAT'S IT.

When has God's engrafted word not been able to save the soul?

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

(Jump)...It's not about being perfect Steaver it's about being blameless. We will never be perfect this side of death. It is an impossibility. However we can be blameless. When I do mess up and I am convicted by the Holy Spirit I John says if I will confess my sins He is faithful and just to forgive me. That allows me to be blameless.

Amen! You just described all Christians. Your doctrine offers nothing more than a tickling of the ear.

(Jump)....As far as knowing whether your work is wood, hay or stubble that is a difficult question to answer. I think the closer we get to being made into the image of Christ and being grown up from glory to glory the more we will be able to discern that. However Scripture tells us that there are some that will stand before the Judge on that day thinking they had works of righteousness, but they will in fact be told they were works of iniquity (wood, hay and stubble).

You follow a doctrine of hopelessness. It has no facts, no anchor, no test for the believer to judge if he or she is acceptable before Jesus. It only offers fear of being punished for not doing enough for Christ. It is a sad doctrine.

God Bless!

 

[J. Jump]

When has God's engrafted word not been able to save the soul?

Never. What's your point?

It always has been, is now and always will be, but one must receive it. It can have all the power in the world, but if one does not receive it then the power to save the soul is useless.

Amen! You just described all Christians.

Again so what's your point? Of course I described all saved people. God's desires that all saved people come to repentance and now the Truth and have their souls saved. He does not desire any to be lost, but that is our choice.

Your doctrine offers nothing more than a tickling of the ear.

Well we know this isn't true, because if this was an ear tickling doctrine then people would be lining up to hear about it instead of so many people turning a deaf ear to this doctrine. The doctrine that tickles the ear is the doctrine that the majority of Christendom pushes and the one you have bought into and that is that once you are saved you can live life any ole way you please and you will still get to rule and reign with Christ. The doctrine that everyone is okay no matter how they live is an ear tickling doctrine and people are lined up right and left listening and believing that nonsense.

You follow a doctrine of hopelessness.

Again what nonsense. We have a hope of glory!

It has no facts, no anchor, no test for the believer to judge if he or she is acceptable before Jesus.

Again you can say this until you are blue in the face, but it doesn't make it so.

It only offers fear of being punished for not doing enough for Christ. It is a sad doctrine.

Well it does start with fear, because Scripture says that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Unfortunately Christendom has lost its fear of the Lord, and mangled the word to mean "respect." That's not what the word means. It means fear, be afraid. Hebrews tells believers it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

And it not about being punished, but about being disciplined for being unfaithful, disobedient and non-overcoming as we have been commanded.

Your doctrine says you can be unfaithful, disobedient, and non-overcoming and that your Father will just give you a free pass w/o as much as a slap on the wrist. That is a sad doctrine!

 

[Faith alone]

James is speaking to believers. Most NT letters are addressed to believers but not all in every church are saved. James states "if a man say". James is teaching the church to examine themselves just as Paul had taught as well.

If we would declare that every man James is speaking to is a genuine believer then we must declare the same throughout all the scriptures that address the church such as the following;

Paul opens his letter to the Roman Christians....

Rom 1:7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul, still speaking to "believers", states....

Rom 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Now answer this question. If Paul is speaking only to all genuine believers, then why is Paul saying that any believer that has not the Spirit of Christ is none of His? How can a believer not have the Spirit of Christ?

God Bless!

steaver,

Romans 1:7 refers to all elect in Rome - not all in Rome...

Well, in Romans 8 Paul is simply saying TO Christians that they have the Spirit of God indwelling them, and hence they should live like it - not in the flesh. Here it is in context:

Romans 8:6-9 For the mind-set of the flesh is death, but the mind-set of the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind-set of the flesh is hostile to God because it does not submit itself to God's law, for it is unable to do so. Those whose lives are in the flesh are unable to please God. You, however, are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Believers can have their mind set on the flesh. When they do not allow the Spirit to guide them, they are not able to obey God. There are also unbelievcrers who are not carnal (fleshly) believers, but ones without the Spirit. And there is no question but that Paul was addressing believers here.

Now I have no doubt that there were unbelievers in some of the local churches, though that was quite rare then. They were persecuted, and people often had to wait 6 months to a year before they were brought into the fellowship ofthe church - to avoid spies. But I will grant you that there were likely unbelievers in the body. But James was not writing addressing them at all. He was addressing believers.

Enough of Romans. In the next post I'll give specifics for James...

FA
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[Faith alone]

James is speaking to believers. Most NT letters are addressed to believers but not all in every church are saved. James states "if a man say". James is teaching the church to examine themselves just as Paul had taught as well.

If we would declare that every man James is speaking to is a genuine believer then we must declare the same throughout all the scriptures that address the church such as the following;

Paul opens his letter to the Roman Christians....

Rom 1:7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul, still speaking to "believers", states....

Rom 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Now answer this question. If Paul is speaking only to all genuine believers, then why is Paul saying that any believer that has not the Spirit of Christ is none of His? How can a believer not have the Spirit of Christ?

God Bless!

I addressed Romans earlier...

As we read chapter 1, clearly James is addressing "dearly beloved" brothers.

James 1:1, 2James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ: To the 12 tribes in the Dispersion. Greetings. Consider it a great joy, my brothers, whenever you experience various trials,
So this letter was written to Jewish brothers, scattered throughout the world.
Here are some more indications in James...

1:9 The brother of humble circumstances should boast in his exaltation

1:16 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Don't be deceived, my dearly loved brothers.

1:19, 20 [/FONT]My dearly loved brothers, understand this: everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger, 20 for man's anger does not accomplish God's righteousness.

2:1 My brothers, hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ without showing favoritism.

2:5 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Listen, my dear brothers: Didn't God choose the poor in this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that He has promised to those who love Him?

2:7 [/FONT]Don't they blaspheme the noble name that you bear?

2:15, 16 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith, but does not have works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothes and lacks daily food...
(Here's the "if a man says..." Also in 2:18.)

3:1 Not many should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive a stricter judgment

3:9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men who are made in God's likeness.

3:10 Out of the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things should not be this way.

3:12 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Can a fig tree produce olives, my brothers, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a saltwater spring yield fresh water.

4:1 [/FONT]What is the source of the wars and the fights among you? Don't they come from the cravings that are at war within you?

4:2b [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]...You do not have because you do not ask.
(Only Christians are told to ask God - prayer.)

[/FONT]4:4 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? So whoever wants to be the world's friend becomes God's enemy.
(James is saying that when they try to live as if they were still in theworld, they are opposing what God is doing.)

4:5 [/FONT]Or do you think it's without reason the Scripture says that the Spirit He has caused to live in us yearns jealously?

4:7 Therefore, submit to God. But resist the Devil, and he will flee from you.
(James would not tell unbelievers to resist Satan - they cannot without the Spirit. he said that in chapter 1.)

4:11 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Don't criticize one another, brothers. He who criticizes a brother or judges his brother criticizes the law and judges the law.

4:15 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Instead, you should say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that."
(Only believers would be expected to recognize God's sovereignty in their lives like this.)

[/FONT]5:6, 7 You have condemned--you have murdered--the righteous man; he does not resist you. Therefore, brothers, be patient until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth and is patient with it until it receives the early and the late rains.
(I listed vs. 6 so that it would be apparent that the warnings he gave earlier were addressed to believers.)

5:9, 10 Brothers, do not complain about one another, so that you will not be judged. Look, the judge stands at the door! Brothers, take the prophets who spoke in the Lord's name as an example of suffering and patience.

5:12-14 Now above all, my brothers, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath. Your "yes" must be "yes," and your "no" must be "no," so that you won't fall under judgment. Is anyone among you suffering? He should pray. Is anyone cheerful? He should sing praises. Is anyone among you sick? He should call for the elders of the church, and they should pray over him after anointing him with olive oil in the name of the Lord.

5:15 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]The prayer of faith will save the sick person,

5:19, 20 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]My brothers, if any among you strays from the truth, and someone turns him back, he should know that whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his life from death and cover a multitude of sins (the end)
(Clearly the saving here is physical in nature.)

James is writing to believers - to those Jewish believers who are not living in Jerusalem or in israel, but scattered throughout the world since the Babylonian and Assyrian captivities.

I still say that James is addressing genuine believers and we must approach it with that understanding.

FA[/FONT]

 

[steaver]

(Faith Alone)....I still say that James is addressing genuine believers and we must approach it with that understanding.

FA

So do I. However, within any letter to believers the writer has the liberty to compare the saved to the unsaved. What does this have to do with the doctrine that those believers are not saved yet?

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

(Faith Alone).....Romans 1:7 refers to all elect in Rome - not all in Rome...

Yes, that is why I posted verse 1:7 to show this.

(Faith Alone)....There are also unbelievers who are not carnal (fleshly) believers, but ones without the Spirit.

Please clarify.

I'm not sure that you answered my question......."If Paul is speaking only to all genuine believers, then why is Paul saying that any believer that has not the Spirit of Christ is none of His? How can a believer not have the Spirit of Christ?"

Paul is speaking to believers. How can a believer not have the Spirit of Christ?

God bless!

 

[steaver]

(Jump)....It always has been, is now and always will be, but one must receive it. It can have all the power in the world, but if one does not receive it then the power to save the soul is useless.

Agreed. And since James states that the word is engrafted (past tense) then these souls are saved and "receive" here is subjective which means that these souls are to be submissive to that engrafted word's directions, which of course, as a matter of fact, is able to save your soul.

No deep mystery here at all.

(Jump)....Again so what's your point? Of course I described all saved people. God's desires that all saved people come to repentance and now the Truth and have their souls saved. He does not desire any to be lost, but that is our choice.

"All saved people come to repentance"? No, no. All unsaved people come to repentance and know the Truth and have their souls saved.

(Jump)....Well we know this isn't true, because if this was an ear tickling doctrine then people would be lining up to hear about it instead of so many people turning a deaf ear to this doctrine. The doctrine that tickles the ear is the doctrine that the majority of Christendom pushes and the one you have bought into and that is that once you are saved you can live life any ole way you please and you will still get to rule and reign with Christ. The doctrine that everyone is okay no matter how they live is an ear tickling doctrine and people are lined up right and left listening and believing that nonsense.

I think you falsely accuse a majority of fellow believers. I for one do not believe in such a doctrine as you describe here and I would wager that not one poster on this board believes in such a doctrine. Do you have any quotes from anyone here on Baptist Board or from anyone in "Christendom" as you like to say? If not, you should retract the statement.

God Bless!

 

[av1611jim]

Agreed. And since James states that the word is engrafted (past tense) then these souls are saved and "receive" here is subjective which means that these souls are to be submissive to that engrafted word's directions, which of course, as a matter of fact, is able to save your soul.

No deep mystery here at all.



"All saved people come to repentance"? No, no. All unsaved people come to repentance and know the Truth and have their souls saved.



I think you falsely accuse a majority of fellow believers. I for one do not believe in such a doctrine as you describe here and I would wager that not one poster on this board believes in such a doctrine. Do you have any quotes from anyone here on Baptist Board or from anyone in "Christendom" as you like to say? If not, you should retract the statement.

God Bless!

What is it you would wager? A weeks pay? Your place in the Kingdom? What exactly will you wager?

Whatever it is that you would wager.....it is time to pay the Piper.

I am among many on this Baptist Board who also believe this doctrine. :wavey: :laugh: :godisgood: :type:

 

[steaver]

Quote: (steaver)
It has no facts, no anchor, no test for the believer to judge if he or she is acceptable before Jesus.

(Jump)....Again you can say this until you are blue in the face, but it doesn't make it so.

It is so until you can refute it with some scripture that tells us when we can know we have overcome.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

(jim)...I am among many on this Baptist Board who also believe this doctrine.

You misread my post brother . The doctrine I refered to was the doctrine that Jump says the majority of Christendom teaches, not the doctrine he teaches.

God bless!

 

[J. Jump]

Agreed. And since James states that the word is engrafted (past tense) then these souls are saved and "receive" here is subjective which means that these souls are to be submissive to that engrafted word's directions, which of course, as a matter of fact, is able to save your soul.

No deep mystery here at all.

It continues to amaze what a poor grasp you have on the English language.

Receive is not subjective, it is imperitive. It is a command. These people were told to do something they hadn't already done. Yes the word was engrated into them (past tense), but they had not yet received this word that is able to save their souls. And because they had not received the word yet their souls were still not saved.

You are right there is no deep mystery here at all. It's simple English.

"All saved people come to repentance"? No, no. All unsaved people come to repentance and know the Truth and have their souls saved.

Sorry that statement was made to believers about believers not about the unsaved. The unsaved need just believe and they will be saved. Repentance is for the saved.

I think you falsely accuse a majority of fellow believers. I for one do not believe in such a doctrine as you describe here

Steaver you have said as much on this very thread. Do I need to dig it up for you yet again? I have reposted it once before.

Do you have any quotes from anyone here on Baptist Board or from anyone in "Christendom" as you like to say?

Not many will openly admit it straight forwardly. That's why it was a big surprising when you did.

 

[J. Jump]

It is so until you can refute it with some scripture that tells us when we can know we have overcome.

Brother with all due respect I think the author himself could tell you what was meant and you still wouldn't believe it. The simple reading of the English language refutes what you have said. I can't help that you won't let go, but I do understand why you won't :tear: .

 

[steaver]

(Jump)....It continues to amaze what a poor grasp you have on the English language.

Receive is not subjective, it is imperitive. It is a command. These people were told to do something they hadn't already done. Yes the word was engrated into them (past tense), but they had not yet received this word that is able to save their souls. And because they had not received the word yet their souls were still not saved.

I already factually dealt with the word "receive" but you decided to totally ignore the facts of the matter.

Question for you. Does the translation from Greek to English for the word "receive" originate from two seperate and different Greek words having two seperate and different meanings and applications?

Your answer must be Yes, this is not debatable.

Here is the difference again, I posted this once and you ignored these facts........

Now James tells them to receive this engrafted word with meekness. In this context the word translated "receive" is "dechomai"(Gk) , not as "receive" "lambano"(Gk). The difference is this...."receive" as "lambano" is to get hold of or to take, whereas "receive" as "dechomai" is passive or subjective. So in this use of the word "receive" one must place the word use in it's passive or subjective context. In this case this can only mean that James is telling the Christians, whom already have the engrafted word, to be submissive to that word or in other words do what the Holy Spirit is telling you is right when it comes to, in this verse, "laying apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness". This is part of the sanctification process of the believer.

"dechomai" IS subjective and is NOT "lambano" which is to get hold of or to take.

You persistently declare that "dechomai" is not subjective even though the Greek concordance declares that it is. How can anyone debate another person if word definitions will not be followed?

Now please stop declaring that it is I that has a "poor grasp" on the English language. I studied the word receive from it's original intent in the Greek and I accept what the dictionaries tell me.

One cannot "lambano" that which they already have. One can "dechomai" with meekness that which they already have.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

(Jump)....The unsaved need just believe and they will be saved. Repentance is for the saved.

Turning from unbelief to belief is repentance. Turning from sins is repentance. Changing one's mind is repentance. One must study and rightly divide the word of truth to establish what it is one needs to or is being told to repent from.

(Jump)...Not many will openly admit it straight forwardly. That's why it was a big surprising when you did.

Then your "majority" statement is just an opinion and an accusation without factual support.

God Bless!

 

[J. Jump]

Now James tells them to receive this engrafted word with meekness. In this context the word translated "receive" is "dechomai"(Gk) , not as "receive" "lambano"(Gk). The difference is this...."receive" as "lambano" is to get hold of or to take, whereas "receive" as "dechomai" is passive or subjective. So in this use of the word "receive" one must place the word use in it's passive or subjective context. In this case this can only mean that James is telling the Christians, whom already have the engrafted word, to be submissive to that word or in other words do what the Holy Spirit is telling you is right when it comes to, in this verse, "laying apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness". This is part of the sanctification process of the believer.

Thank you for proving my point. They had not received the teaching. They had the word, but they hadn't applied the teachings to their lives. That's the whole point I have been trying to make.

They were to receive what they had not yet received. And if they would apply the word to their lives that would save their souls.

You persistently declare that "dechomai" is not subjective even though the Greek concordance declares that it is.

There is a subjective mood in the Greek language. This verb is not subjective, it is an imperitive. It is a command. There is no getting around that.

The verb is an aroist, middle deponent (which almost always means it is the subject that is doing the action - which is in line with this context) and imperitive, meaning command. That's what the word is as it is used by James.

Now what you have typed is the application. It does not mean physically take the paper the word is written on, it means take the teaching and apply it to your life. Take what you have learned and adjust your life accordingly. They weren't doing this. That is why they were told to do this. James tells them that if they do receive the word it is able to save their souls.

So while you have the intent of the word you do not correctly apply it. Therefore your grasp is poor. And again it continues to amaze me how you try to mangle the language to prove "your" point.

I studied the word receive from it's original intent in the Greek and I accept what the dictionaries tell me.

But what you need to do is take what you have learned and then go back to the verse and put into into action. I honestly can't see how you have the word intent right, but you can't rightly apply it to the passage.

James is telling them to do something they haven't done. And because they haven't done this their souls are still unsaved. But if they will do what he is telling them then it is able to save their souls.

Somehow you get James is telling them to do something they have already done and that by having already done what he is commanding them to do their souls are already saved. That's just not what the text says no matter how bad you want it to.

And you are right and I have said this all along this verse is speaking to the sanctification of the believer. But sanctification is not an absolute guarantee. It is a choice. That's why they are commanded. Commands can be obeyed or rebeled against.

 

[J. Jump]

Turning from unbelief to belief is repentance. Turning from sins is repentance. Changing one's mind is repentance. One must study and rightly divide the word of truth to establish what it is one needs to or is being told to repent from.

What you have said is true. However, when people speak of repentance they more often than not are talking about repenting of sins. That is not part of the eternal salvation process. That is part of the sanctification process.

Then your "majority" statement is just an opinion and an accusation without factual support.

There is all kinds of support for it. You just have to listen to what people are saying and/or typing. That's the problem people face. Their own words find them guilty whether they want to admit to it or not.

For example there's a large chunk of Christendom that says if a person says they believe, but don't prove it with works then they really aren't saved. That's just a back-loaded works salvation doctrine. But if you ask the person if they believe in a works-based salvation they will deny it until they are blue in the face. But it doesn't matter if they deny it the proof is in what they have said prior. They are merely just deceiving themselves and trying to deceive others.

 

[Faith alone]

(Faith Alone)....There are also unbelievers who are not carnal (fleshly) believers, but ones without the Spirit.

Please clarify.

In 1 Corinthians 2 & 3 Paul speaks of the natural man (who is not a believer) and two types of believers: the spiritual man and the fleshly (carnal) man.

I'm not sure that you answered my question......."If Paul is speaking only to all genuine believers, then why is Paul saying that any believer that has not the Spirit of Christ is none of His? How can a believer not have the Spirit of Christ?"

Paul is speaking to believers. How can a believer not have the Spirit of Christ?

God bless!

OK, here's what I said:

(Old FA)
Well, in Romans 8 Paul is simply saying TO Christians that they have the Spirit of God indwelling them, and hence they should live like it - not in the flesh. Here it is in context:

Romans 8:6-9 For the mind-set of the flesh is death, but the mind-set of the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind-set of the flesh is hostile to God because it does not submit itself to God's law, for it is unable to do so. Those whose lives are in the flesh are unable to please God. You, however, are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Believers can have their mind set on the flesh. When they do not allow the Spirit to guide them, they are not able to obey God. There are also unbelievers who are not carnal (fleshly) believers, but ones without the Spirit. And there is no question but that Paul was addressing believers here.

Now I have no doubt that there were unbelievers in some of the local churches, though that was quite rare then. They were persecuted, and people often had to wait 6 months to a year before they were brought into the fellowship ofthe church - to avoid spies. But I will grant you that there were likely unbelievers in the body. But James was not writing addressing them at all. He was addressing believers.

All believers have the Spirit. Perhaps you didn't read that post carefully enough or made some assumptions.

What I said is that Paul was affirming that they were believers and hence that they had the Spirit in them... by denying the negative. That is a common practice in the NT. And since they had the Spirit, they should live according to the Spirit.

The underlined portion above in that Romans 8 text in context says that fleshly Christians are not able to please God. Then Paul says that (though some of them might have their minds set on the flesh) they are not in the flesh, since they are indwelt by the Spirit, as are all believers.

IOW, he's just saying that thay should set their minds on the Spirit, since they have the Spirit. The "But" is DE - a contrasting "but," not the emphatic ALLA.

I see no reason to assume that Paul is addressing anyone in the body at Rome who may not have the Spirit of Christ. Look at verse 12:

8:12 So then, brothers, we are not obligated to the flesh to live according to the flesh

Paul says that we are not obligated to live according to the flesh. The assumption is that this is something which believers might do. But that makes no sense and does not fit in with the Spirit Who is in them. Paul warned them about this in detail in chapter 6. Look at vss. 15, 16:

8:15, 16 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry out, " Abba , Father!" The Spirit Himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God's children

Vs. 18 gives some motivation for living according to the Spirit in them:

8:18 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is going to be revealed to us.

Here Paul tells them to hang in there and not go back to following the flesh since there will be tremendous rewards, inheritance and glory. In vs. 29 Paul speaks about the purpose of becoming children of God:

8:29 [/FONT]For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

...to be conformed to Christ - become like Him. Just before this chapter Paul spoke of the same struggles he himself experienced as a believer (This is not referring to what he experienced before he came to Christ. Nothing in the context hints at that.):

7:24, 25 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself am a slave to the law of God, but with my flesh, to the law of sin.

Look at 6...

6:1, 2 What should we say then? Should we continue in sin in order that grace may multiply? Absolutely not! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

Paul says that it makes no sense for us to continue to sin. Look at vss. 11-13:

6:11-13 So, you too consider yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, so that you obey its desires. And do not offer any parts of it to sin as weapons for unrighteousness. But as those who are alive from the dead, offer yourselves to God, and all the parts of yourselves to God as weapons for righteousness.

Clearly as believers we need to choose to live like it. Again, Paul was not talking to some of those in the assembly in Rome that if they did not have the Spirit they were not Christ's. He was reminding them that they DID have the Spirit, and they should live like it. That is consistent with what he has been saying from Romans 6 onwards.

Hope this helps clarify.

FA

 

[steaver]

(Jump)....This verb is not subjective

The Strong's Concordance I use states that receive as used in James 1:21 is subjective. Can you post your resource that states it is not? I can only go by what the Greek resources states that it is. Maybe Strong's is wrong, if so, must we now deliberate the trustworthiness of dictionaries?

God Bless!