Salvation of the Soul (Page One)

[steaver]

(Jump)....I would be curious however to hear what you think a person will reap what they sow means. How is reaping to the flesh, but still ruling and reigning with Christ reaping what you sow?

Very good questions. Can I take your defensive position on these questions?

Your honor, I refuse to answer on the grounds that the hearer of my answer does not really care what the answer is and will continue to disagree with me anyways.

God Bless! :wavey:

 

[steaver]

(Jump)....No it was you. You said that a person can live like the world and still rule and reign with Christ. You said the only consquence is your position might not be as high as the next guy. That's a go to church on Sunday and live like the devil Monday-Saturday theology if I've ever heard one.

I don't think it was quite so literally said that way. And a Sunday Christian is not a born again Christian according to the bible I read. But that is yet another topic than salvation of the soul.

God Bless!

 

[av1611jim]

Steaver asked for "how-to-apply-its".
Here are a few.
Romans 8:1-13 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

WORKS!!! and again here is your LIST!

Galatians 6:1-10 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For every man shall bear his own burden. Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

and again....
Colossians 3:1-17 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

And again....

1 Thessalonians 5:12-23 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves. Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


You want more? Why should I give you more? You WILL NOT do what you are told to do.

All of these are COMMANDS to the believer with dire consequences if he refuses yet you seem to think they are OPTIONAL.

Poor fellow. Say you believe the Bible yet redefine it to suit yourself.

JUST BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS!!!!! It isn't that hard to do. What IS hard is living it.

 

[av1611jim]

Of course I highly doubt you will take a sufficient amount of prayerful time to read and understand what I have posted.

 

[J. Jump]

Your honor, I refuse to answer on the grounds that the hearer of my answer does not really care what the answer is and will continue to disagree with me anyways.

See that's where you go wrong again. I really do care what the answer is. And I have given you ample opportunity to just refute one single Scripture and you can't even do that. So yes I would be VERY intersted in how someone can sow to the flesh yet reap the reward of ruling and reigning with Christ, especially when Scripture says that those that sow to the flesh will reap corruption not a place in the kingdom.

See I don't care about winning an argument or debate I just want to know the Truth. If I have to eat crow I have to eat crow. I've had to do it before and I'll have to do it again. As a matter of fact I just learned something a couple of days ago that is contrary to what I've always been taught and thought. It's hard letting go of something that is so deep, but if it's wrong, it's wrong. I don't have a problem admitting that at all.

I don't think it was quite so literally said that way.

It was the same principal, but just like you've ton a couple of times already you are doing the Kerry flip-flop because now you say such a worldly person isn't even a Christian. Can't you make up your mind Steaver?

And a Sunday Christian is not a born again Christian according to the bible I read.

Really can you show me "that" evidence? And why are you sporting this "new" belief when just a few pages ago a worldly believer was just as saved as the non-worldly believer he just wasn't going to have that high of a position in the kingdom? Why the switch? I think you said something about being a dog catcher or a dog watcher in heaven?

 

[steaver]

(Jim)....What IS hard is living it.

I haven't found it difficult to live for Jesus. When I discovered His grace I was regenerated and given a new heart towards loving God. The difference might be that I obey His word out of love for Him while others obey His word out of a fear of punishment or out of a desire to get something in exchange.

I have no fear of losing the salvation of my soul. God's word comforts my soul that I have what He has promissed. Past, present and future (eternal).

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

Quote:steaver
And a Sunday Christian is not a born again Christian according to the bible I read.
(Jump).....Really can you show me "that" evidence?

Romans 8:1-13 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, ifso be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

God Bless!

 

[J. Jump]

Well Steaver you're at it again. You have quoted a passage of Scripture that doesn't have anything to do with the statement that you have made. But that's pretty typical on Christians these days. They are just repeating what they have been taught instead of searching out the truth. Simply repeating rhetoric doesn't make your belief true. Sorry. There is nothing in Romans 8 that says a Sunday Christian isn't saved. Care to try again?

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 8:1-13 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, ifso be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

God Bless!

Perfect point.

It contrasts LIFE with death - salvation with the condemnation of the lost.

Those who claim that the saints ARE BOTH dead and lost as well as SAVED and ALIVE - are embracing a glaring contradiction.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

A "Sunday Christian" as you put it, one who looks like a Christian on Sunday but lives for the devil Monday thru Saturday, is a false Christian or more acurately not a Christian at all. Scripture is clear that there are false brethern among the church.

Romans 8 is the perfect word that describes a true born of God Christian.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

In the book of Hebrews we are told that the hope in which we have is that God will perform what He has promised and this hope is an anchor of the soul. This is yet another passage that declares the soul is what God has promised to be saved when God speaks about salvation.

"Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."(Heb 6:19-20)

The Hebrew's writer goes on to say ....... "But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Now we have seen both Peter and the writer of Hebrews revealing that the soul is indeed the focus of faith, grace and the sacrificial atoning blood of Jesus Christ.

The Hebrews writer makes it specifically clear that those who believe are of them that believe to the saving of the soul. "Believers", the writer declares, understand or believe all the way to the saving of the soul. Believers know that the soul is saved and the soul will be saved because God promised and God cannot lie(Heb 6).

God Bless!

 

[J. Jump]

Steaver it continues to amaze me that you quote Scripture that laughs at your idea that the soul is already saved yet you act as if it doesn't really say what it says. That just baffles my mind.

The Hebrews writer makes it specifically clear that those who believe are of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Again the writer of Hebrews is writing to a "saved" group of people. He is talking about something that happens AFTER eternal salvation, not something that happened when they were saved. These people were believing so that something that hasn't happened yet might happen in the future.

Again it just really boggles my mind how you can take a plain English word which means totally opposite of what you think and just act as if it says something else.

If the soul was already saved the writer of Hebrews would have used a PAST TENSE sentence structure instead of a FUTURE TENSE sentence structure. I mean really.

You have mangled three extremely plain and easy to understand verses and yet you still want people to believe you. WOW . . . that's really all I can say.

 

[steaver]

(Jump).....Again the writer of Hebrews is writing to a "saved" group of people.

I agree. Saved people/souls.

(Jump)....He is talking about something that happens AFTER eternal salvation, not something that happened when they were saved.

That is your doctrine but that is not what the writer said. Hebrews states perfectly clear that the hope is that God will do as He promised and that this hope is an anchor for the soul. How could He say it any plainer?

I did not reword what He said in any way like you do with James. James says "which is able to save your souls" but you say James says "the soul is not yet saved".

I use the exact words from God's word in Hebrews here, yet you deny them. You came into this debate boasting that if shown error you would be willing to change your position. This is not true is it?

Can you explain away hope in God's promise that anchors the soul? Or will you just continue to say you are amazed at my misuse of scripture?

(Jump)....These people were believing so that something that hasn't happened yet might happen in the future.

Well they are to have faith or hope that God will do as He promised and save their souls. Faith in God is the anchor for the soul says the writer. Salvation of the soul is a past, present and future experience as revealed in scripture. I got saved, I am saved, I will be saved. Hebrews, James and Peter all reveal the "future" promise of the salvation of the soul. This in no way cancels out God's word revealing the "present" salvation of the soul that the believer possess in the promise. Scripture does not refute scripture. Both revelations are correct.

Hbr 6:12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Through "faith and patience" . That does not say "faith and works". I have not added nor have I taken away from this passage. Yet you accuse me of misuse of scripture. I do not see why you do this.

God Bless!

 

[J. Jump]

I agree. Saved people/souls.

Again you make no sense. You agree that they are saved. And then you add your part of saved souls, yet the text clearly says that the salvation of their soul is future not past and yet you continue to insist on the soul already being saved. Which is it? Is the soul already saved and Scripture a lie or does Scripture tell us the Truth and say the soul is "able" to be saved in the future as Hebrews and I Peter tell us? It can't be both.

Hebrews states perfectly clear that the hope is that God will do as He promised and that this hope is an anchor for the soul. How could He say it any plainer?

A hope is something that may or may not happen. Just as Scripture tells us that our soul may or may not be saved. God is able to do what He says if we do what He has told us to do according to Scripture. But if we don't do as we have been instructed He is under no obligation to keep His end. See the salvation of the soul is based on conditions if this, then that.

I did not reword what He said in any way like you do with James. James says "which is able to save your souls" but you say James says "the soul is not yet saved".

Yes in fact you did try to reword James' statement. He said able to save. Able to save does not equate to already saved as much as you want it to. That's just not what that English phrase means. It didn't in the past. It doesn't now. And it will not in the future. Able to means that something is not done and that something can be accomplished. Again it's just simple English.

I use the exact words from God's word in Hebrews here, yet you deny them.

That's my whole point Steaver. You type the words in and then you spout off your doctrine as if the words weren't there. That's what amazes me. I am not the one denying the words. I am the one trying to get you to see the exact words you are typing and what they mean, because obviously that's where you are struggling.

Both texts are future texts yet you try to place both texts into the past tense.

Can you explain away hope in God's promise that anchors the soul?

There is no need to explain it away. I do have a hope and that hope is the anchor of my soul. My soul is not saved and I have a hope that through faith that works, as James says, that my soul will be saved in the future as I Peter and Hebrews says. But a hope is just that a hope.

Salvation of the soul is a past, present and future experience as revealed in scripture.

Please show me any evidence that the soul is saved in the past. And your bit from Ephesians 2:8-9 doesn't cut the mustard.

Hebrews, James and Peter all reveal the "future" promise of the salvation of the soul.

Exactly. Finally you have quit denying Scripture. They are future, not past. The soul is not saved. It can be saved in the future.

This in no way cancels out God's word revealing the "present" salvation of the soul that the believer possess in the promise.

Correct your soul should be in the process of being saved (present). However what you have been trying to argue and incorrectly is that the soul was saved in the past, and Scripture just does not reveal that.

You are correct that Scripture does not refute Scripture and that is exactly what I have been trying to get you to see, because your idea of the soul being saved in the past does not line up with Scripture.

That does not say "faith and works". I have not added nor have I taken away from this passage.

You are right this passage does not.

Yet you accuse me of misuse of scripture. I do not see why you do this.

Yes because you have typed in three future tense texts and say look this proves the soul was saved in the past. Those three Scripture do not prove that and can not prove that. The salvation of the soul should be a present reality that is completed in the future. It is not a guarantee, but conditional.

 

[steaver]

(Jump)....Please show me any evidence that the soul is saved in the past. And your bit from Ephesians 2:8-9 doesn't cut the mustard.

The OP alone has proven this along with 18 pages of debate. You have no intention on seeing anything different than what you have already set your mind to.

Whenever I enter into a debate, I enter with the hope that those on the other side of the issue might just see the truth presented. However I enter knowing that this is highly unlikely and so the main reason I earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints is for those who listen in, so they may be equiped with the precepts that I believe God has shown me to be correct doctrine through study and much prayer.

I have laid out the salvation of the soul precept upon precept referencing the full councel of God's Word. I have thoroughly dealt with the only three texts that were given as an atempt to refute my exposition.

Let the reader study, pray and decide for themselves if God has saved their soul or not. If not, then they best get to work at a life of misery, as Nee teaches it.

As for me, I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. What I have committed unto Him is my soul.

God Bless!

 

[J. Jump]

The OP alone has proven this along with 18 pages of debate.

Well you can say you proven it until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't make it fact. At every turn your doctrine has been punched full of holes.

You have no intention on seeing anything different than what you have already set your mind to.

Well that's just absolutely a false statement. And it cracks me up everytime someone uses this lame line with me. See I'm just about a year removed from changing theological views. And as I said in a previous thread just a few days ago I was shown something to be incorrect that I have always grown up seeing as correct. So this line doesn't hold any water either.

I told you I'm not interested in debate, and I'm not interested in winning an argument. I just want to know the Truth and when Truth is presented I will believe it and change my views accordingly. I have had to eat crow in the past. And I just recently ate some more crow, and I will have to eat some more in the future. But what I won't do is fold for someone that can't even defend what the believe in.

I know, I know Steaver you say you have defended your beliefs, but you really haven't. You haven't even come close. The only thing that you have done when faced with Scripture that speaks against what you have said is to say those Scriptures really don't mean what they say. But you have seen the folly of that argument so now you admit that they are future tense, but you still don't believe the conclusion that presents, you just danced your way around the issue so more.

I have thoroughly dealt with the only three texts that were given as an atempt to refute my exposition.

:laugh: Man I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read this statement or I would be cleaning off my keyboard and screen right about now.

Let the reader study, pray and decide for themselves if God has saved their soul or not.

Amen! Finally something we agree on.

not, then they best get to work at a life of misery, as Nee teaches it.

Nah no need to rely on man, just do what the Bible says to do . . . that's all one needs!

What I have committed unto Him is my soul.

Well with all sincerey I hope and pray that you have and that you will keep soul committed to Him until that day. But I hope and pray that others will see and understand that discipleship is a choice not a matter of fact. And I pray that they will wake up from their slumber before it is too late!

And I pray that we will both stand before our Judge on that day blameless and that we will both have an abundant entrance into the glorious kingdom of our Christ, and that we will both be able to rule and reign with our Lord for 1,000 years.

 

[steaver]

(Jump)....Well you can say you proven it until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't make it fact. At every turn your doctrine has been punched full of holes.

And you can say at every turn it has been punched full of holes until your blue in the face and that too does not make it fact.

We have each laid out our case, let the reader decide.

(Jump)....I told you I'm not interested in debate,

Yes, I remember this back about 18 pages ago :thumbs:

(Jump)....I know, I know Steaver you say you have defended your beliefs, but you really haven't. You haven't even come close. The only thing that you have done when faced with Scripture that speaks against what you have said is to say those Scriptures really don't mean what they say. But you have seen the folly of that argument so now you admit that they are future tense, but you still don't believe the conclusion that presents, you just danced your way around the issue so more.

I will let the readers decide that for themselves. I know I will not get your vote, afterall, you are the one I debated against.

(Jump)....Nah no need to rely on man, just do what the Bible says to do . . . that's all one needs!

I would wager that you and I follow what the bible says to "do" pretty much exactly the same. So you can "work" for your soul if you like, but I do what the bible says because of my love alone for Christ. The only reason I have this love is because He first loved me and gave me a new heart. So it really isn't something I choose to do but rather it is something I have been created to do because of who God made me to be in receiving Christ. In fact if I would receive a crown of any sorts I will be throwing it at the feet of Jesus because any good work that I have done was only done for Him out of gratitude, not because I felt a need to work for it.

(Jump)....And I pray that we will both stand before our Judge on that day blameless and that we will both have an abundant entrance into the glorious kingdom of our Christ, and that we will both be able to rule and reign with our Lord for 1,000 years.

Amen, raying:

God Bless!

 

[J. Jump]

I was going to comment on several things, but realize it really is useless, but I do want to address another one of your mis-statements.

So you can "work" for your soul if you like, but I do what the bible says because of my love alone for Christ.

That's an awfully bold and arrogant statement saying that I am obedient solely for the sake of my soul and not doing it for the love of Christ, as if you are the only one that loves Christ.

Just so we can set the record straight and correct your mis-statement I love Christ as much as possible and am trying to love Him more day by day. Some days are easier than others. But what I do know is that the Bible tells us to be faithful, obedient and overcoming. And if we do not do those things because we love Christ, which we should, we should at least do those things out of the fear of the Lord. Hebrews tells us that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God! And I believe that. I don't want to experience a life of disobedience and unfaithfulness and then have to stand before the Perfect Judge. Unfortunately there are many Christians that do not have a fear of the Lord anymore, because Christendom has watered down what that means.

 

[steaver]

(Jump)....That's an awfully bold and arrogant statement saying that I am obedient solely for the sake of my soul and not doing it for the love of Christ, as if you are the only one that loves Christ.

Just so we can set the record straight and correct your mis-statement I love Christ as much as possible and am trying to love Him more day by day. Some days are easier than others. But what I do know is that the Bible tells us to be faithful, obedient and overcoming. And if we do not do those things because we love Christ, which we should, we should at least do those things out of the fear of the Lord. Hebrews tells us that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God! And I believe that. I don't want to experience a life of disobedience and unfaithfulness and then have to stand before the Perfect Judge. Unfortunately there are many Christians that do not have a fear of the Lord anymore, because Christendom has watered down what that means.

My apologies. I believe you. Like I said, I would wager that we both obey our Lord out of love and reverance pretty much in obeying the same dos and don'ts. This is why Nee and Chitwood's doctrine really means nothing to Christians like you and I who already serve our Lord out of love.

However Nee and Chitwood and others cannot understand, in my opinion, how some Christians do not look so Christlike and loving but still get to be in the kingdom to come. So they grudge in their hearts that it is not fair and desire they be punished in some way. So I believe satan put this doctrine in their hearts in yet another attempt to divide God's children and tie up their time in condemnation of each other rather than spending their time teaching to those babes in Christ that obedience equals love.

Do you believe that if a Christian obeys with a grudge in doing so, like I hate doing this but God's word says I have to, that Christian will still receive the reward?

I say if the answer is no, then this doctrine of Nee's is worthless to pursue.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

Let me just point out a mis-statement of yours as well.

(Jump)....But you have seen the folly of that argument so now you admit that they are future tense, but you still don't believe the conclusion that presents, you just danced your way around the issue so more.

I have stated that salvation is presented in scripture as past tense, present tense, and future tense ever since page one.

Here they are from the beggining....

page one....

(steaver)....The Phrase, "able to save your souls", points out the inherent efficacy of the gospel which they have already accepted.

It is the hope of all Christians that in the end of our journey of faith that faith will become reality and that we will indeed receive the salvation of our souls.

page two.....

Quote(Jump)
I'm confused Steaver. First you say our souls are saved at the moment we believe in the shed blood of Christ. Then here you agree with me that the soul is not in fact saved, but will be saved in the future.


(steaver)......
I never agreed with any "fact" that the soul is not yet saved.

I said...."that faith will become reality".

I know I (a living soul) am saved because the Word of God tells me so. I will not FULLY experience this until I see Jesus face to face in my ressurrected glorified body.

(steaver)......As far as saved goes let me be clear. I am a living soul. I (soul) was saved back when I received Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I (soul) is saved right now as I speak. And I (soul) will be saved in the future when I leave this alien world. Now scripture expresses this past, present and future salvation as an event (regeneration), a perserverance (kept by Jesus Christ), and a finished product (glorification). I (soul) am saved, I am being sanctified, and I will be presented holy and unblameable before God through the shed blood and atonement by Jesus Christ.

(steaver).....We know that salvation is eternal, this means past, present and future. I was saved, I am being saved and I will be saved in the future. That is what "eternal" means. Even after 10,000 years I will be rightly saying that I have been saved, I am being saved and I will always be saved.

Of course it is able to save my soul. Knowing the scriptures of how the soul is atoned for and declared justified I can read this and see that it isn't that controversal at all. The word has been engrafted, this means he is talking to a saved soul. Why say it is able to save your soul if your soul is already saved? Simple, The engrafted word has saved your soul, the engrafted word is saving your soul, and the engrafted word is able to save your souls.

I could go on looking up all of my post on the subject of the inherent efficacy of the gospel , but I have made my point.

God Bless!