Salvation of the Soul (purchased possession)

[DQuixote]

Whoa! This is getting pretty jumpy, folks (no pun intended, JJump). I'd sure like to know how each of you reconcile it with 1 Corinthians 2:1-16 (read it especially in the Amplified Bible).

Maybe each of you could go read this doctrinal statement, then rewrite it in accordance with your own belief system. While producing a lot of zingers,

http://www.cmalliance.org/whoweare/doctrine.jsp

the process oughta slow things down......

BTW, Jump, I rarely read KJV. I use NASB, NIV, NEB, AB, even TLB, Die Gute Nachricht, Die Luther Bibel, and some others. At one time I had 15 references, but now they are all online, so my book case library has given way to the internet library of bibles, commentaries, dictionaries, etc. I've worn out several bibles.

Did you hear the one about the three preachers? See, they were..........

O --- I forgot --- no standup. :laugh:

 

[DQuixote]

What’s wrong with J. Jumps interpretation? Well, short answer…it conflicts with yours, and what makes yours better than his? But hey…this is what Sola Scriptura is all about huh?

I call your attention to 1 Corinthians 2:1-16, in whatever translation you choose. You simply cannot get around the fact that if all scripture is spiritually discerned (and it is) then it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who spiritually discern it to disagree. That being the case, debate about the proper interpretation of scripture is ridiculous. It puts to rest ALL the prophets and their prophecies from the 19th and 20th centuries. They are simply bogus. Anyone with NEW insight into scripture offers at the very best human interpretation. The conclusion is that disagreements over the interpretation of a biblical text are bogus, to put it mildly. No authentic, born-again, washed-in-the-blood-of-the-Lamb Christian who spiritually interprets scripture can be wrong. Read this paragraph again.

Definition: Sola Scriptura

"A Latin term meaning 'scripture alone.' This doctrine says that scripture alone is the primary and absolute source of authority, the final court of appeal, for all doctrine and practice. It holds that the Bible is infallible, that it is sufficient, and that it is clear."

Just think what this truth does to the multipled thousands of denominations!!

Bottom line: It is the Holy Spirit that provides the interpretation of infallible, clear scripture. The Holy Spirit is not going to convey erroneous information. The Holy Spirit working with you is the same one who works with me. Got that? He isn't going to tweak one scripture for you, another for me. We all get precisely the same interpretation, UNLESS......... UNLESS..........

Our interpretation is mental, intellectual, rather than spiritual. Unless much learning has made us mad. Unless brain is getting in the way of God's revelation to 'usward' (that's KJV talk).

NOW .... let the debate begin about who is spiritual and who is not, realizing that on the one hand we will have the possibility of a correct interpretation, and on the other, a bogus interpretation. Two different interpretations of the same passage is IMPOSSIBLE when the Holy Spirit provides the interpretation!

Maybe we could have a debate about who is MORE spiritual......... Nah. That would take us back to square one. "God talks to me more than he does you!" "He does not!" "He does too!" "He does not" ......

As told by Justin Lewis, a Toronto story-teller, a rabbi asks Elijah, "When will the Messiah come?" Elijah answers, "Go ask him yourself." "Where is he?" "He's a beggar at the gates of the city of Rome. He's covered in sores." The other beggars at the gates change their bandages all at once, but the Messiah changes his one at a time, so he can move quickly if he gets called for Messiah duty. The rabbi finds him at the gates and asks, "Master, when will you come?" "Today." Nothing happens, and the rabbi goes back to Elijah for an explanation. Elijah says, "The beggar was alluding to the verse in psalms, `Today, if you would hear God's voice...' "

Clearly, revelation, or hearing the Messiah, requires listening, just as faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Sometimes, Krakofsky's speaker hears too much and becomes confused:

"When the apparatus of the mind is colliding
like bumper cars at the fair
it is impossible to create anything
out of the chaos...."

At other times, he resembles Adele Wiseman, whom he quotes as saying: "I enter books as I enter days -- with respect and hope." In "Rearranging the Bookshelves", he tries to forge a coherent philosophy for himself but discovers that he is happiest in the hodge-podge of ideas and books he has collected over the years: "I will allow old and current feuds to dance where they sit...let the shelves shake in my own image in disharmony and disorganized delight."

Thus spake the debaters, shelves all a-tremble.

 

[J. Jump]

The argument against the false doctrine of OSAS is NOT that "salvation does not exist" so a reference to Eph 2 does nothing to sustain the "salient point" of OSAS which is not simply saved by "ALWAYS saved no matter how rebellious" (in one of the OSAS flavors).

Your ramblings make no sense. You gripe about a person not posting Scriputre in their responses, but when someone does you just ignor it anyway, so what' the point Bob?

Nobody said or made any claim that you thought salvation didn't exist. The point is that the structure of Ephesians 2:8-9 is that salvation is a one-time event in someone's past that the result of that event lasts out into the future and is apart from works. That totally negates EVERY argument that you bring up. Salvation is not based on a person's obedience or fruit production. That is just plain and simple false teaching according to Scripture.

And as predicted J.Jum responds with "yet another no-text" post.

And another example of Bob's selective reading. Bob I said I didn't include any Scripture, because I've already been over Scripture with you in a PM situation. Not need to rehash what you already disagree with - is there? You all must just have nothing better to do than to go around in circles.

But further adding to JJ's problem - you are now "arguing from the void" of what scripture does NOT say to make your case INSTEAD of coming up with a text that says "soul LOST while spirit SAVED" which IS the salient piont of your own argument.

More illogical arguments from the "soul already saved" side. Okay if you are right please show me in Scripture where is says the souls is saved "past" tense. If you can't produce that Scripture then you are now "arguing from the void" of what Scripture does OT say to make your case INSTEAD of coming up with a text that says "soul saved" in the past.

Give me a break. It's pretty sad the lows that you all sink to to hold on to "your" doctrines.

but we find NONE saying "SAVED WHILE LOST" so you simply make it up.

You know Scripture also says come let us reason together. Not everything in Scripture is always spelled out word for word. There is nowhere in Scripture where the Trinity is spelled out word for word, yet very few people deny that it is correct doctrine. Again your arguments are lame at best.

Understanding salvation and who was being dealt with and putting two and two together we come to the understanding that those that were referred to as lost sheep were in fact already saved in the past. Jesus came not seeking to give them eternal salvation. That had already been taken care of. He came offering them a place in His kingdom.

Now that's Scripture. Do I need to give you chapter and verse so that you can't accuse me of not using Scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

While I do defend OSAS in my life it has not been an argument in this thread. In this thread I have only argued that it is the soul that is the focus of saved by grace through faith. So my only goal in this thread is to defend the salvation of the soul as the product of faith alone in Christ. I have not made any attempt to defend OSAS nor will I in this thread.

God Bless!

J Jump has never denied that a soul can be saved via the Gospel - has he?. He simply argues that a soul can be lost. Arguing as you have done that Christ came to save souls is not disproving his case unless you are also arguing that once saved they must remain saved.

I stand corrected - J. Jump DOES DENY that the soul is ever saved prior to the 2nd coming EVEN in the case of Eph 2:8-10 he still denies it.

Bottom line - I was giving J Jump too much credit by arguing that he had a leg to stand on in using texts like Matt 18, John 15, Romans 11 showing the "fallen state" of one who was at one time FORGIVEN and IN Christ to mean "soul lost but spirit saved". As he and you (Steaver) have both pointed out - he denies having that leg to stand on as well.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Nobody said or made any claim that you thought salvation didn't exist. The point is that the structure of Ephesians 2:8-9 is that salvation is a one-time event in someone's past

We DO have "ONCE FOR ALL time" statements in the NT (Heb 10 for example speaking of the sacrifice of Christ - and also Heb 9) -- just not in Eph 2 and NOT in reference to individual salvation.

IF you DID have a "saved ONCE FOR ALL TIME" reference for individual salvation you surely would be wise to quote it - instead of taking a text WITHOUT the "ONCE for all time" language - such as Eph 2:8-9 and quoting it "instead".

By simply quoting a text that shows salvation to EXIST - you highlight the common ground ALL believe.

But despite that misdirection on your part Matt 18 "forgiveness revoked" still exists. Along with Matt 7 "not everyone who SAYS LORD LORD will enter but those who DO my Father's will" and Romans 2:11-13 "not the HEARERS but the DOERS of the Law will be JUSTIFIED" etc

All texts that you would spin to "soul LOST while spirit saved".

And another example of Bob's selective reading. Bob I said I didn't include any Scripture, because I've already been over Scripture

That is not an answer sir. When making a point specific to your argument you have to actually show it IN the text IN the argument. Responding time after time with "non-text" arguments is not addressing the issue. Claiming to have at one time ever used a text does not address it either. you have to actually include the reference in your response as I have done above. Though I have posted it zillions of times - I never tire of pointing out just exactly WHICH texts are debunking the position you have taken.

More illogical arguments from the "soul already saved" side. Okay if you are right please show me in Scripture where is says the souls is saved "past" tense.

Are you denying all references to a person being saved in scripture?

Are you claiming that any reference to a person being saved CAN NOT refer to their soul because the soul is "another person entirely"?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Not ONLY can it be shown that a soul that turns to the gospel is saved - but even one who EVANGELIZES such a soul is said to "save their soul".

James 5:20
let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.


Paul writes that in the life of a saved person the spirit AND the soul are in the SAME state and perseverance is required to PRESERVE Them in that saved state.
Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

In the saved state our Soul is "anchored" firmly in Christ - But we just don't find it bent out to the extreme ideas of OSAS.

Hebrews 6:19
This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil,

"Soul Lost while person SAVED" and "Soul Lost while spirit saved" are not found once - no not in all of scripture.

 

[steaver]

(Jump)....So then what happens to a disobedient, unfaithful, non-overcoming Christian in your view? Talk about a simple question. If I don't live a victorious life that produces no fruit, what happens to me?

Well your question has no point and you wouldn't change your mind even if i answered it so i refuse to answer.

Just kidding, i don't have any problem taking the time to think about another's questions and giving an answer even when, as in this case, it has nothing to do with defining the salvation of the soul.

Some scriptures that speak about disobedient children are as follows;

Acts 5, 1Cr 11:30, 1Ti 6:10, Hbr 10:38, Rev 3:19, Heb 12:6, 1Cr 3:15 are just a few that speaks about the way the Lord deals with some disobedience.

(Jump)...What part of there is NO POINT in answering your questions do you not get. It is a WASTE OF TIME.

I get the excuse. But the fact remains that you refuse to answer. I understand your excuses. Just in case you change your mind I will post it once more....

Can you answer the following Qs? I gave a hint for 2 and I gave my answer for 4. I would like to hear your answers. Maybe you can change my mind and show me how Christ did not purchase souls with His blood and show me how Christ does not possess these souls until the redemption.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Q1) Who is the church of God? Believers? Yes or No?

Q2) Who is the blood an atonement for? A soul? Yes or No? (Leviticus 17:11)

Q3) Did Christ's blood purchase souls? Yes or No?

Q4) What is the purchased possession? Purchased by the blood is souls. Possessed by Christ is souls.

"until the redemption of the purchased possession"....it is already purchased by the blood, it is already owned by Christ, redemption is promissed, therefore Christian souls have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved. James, Peter and Hebrews declares the future finality of this truth.

Eph 1:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Eph 1:13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.)

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

Here is where Jump's camp is totally stuck.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Eph 1:13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.)

Scripture declares "the blood is an atonement for the soul".

Scripture declares believers "purchased with his own blood".

Scripture declares that believers are a "possession" purchased of Christ with His own blood.

Scripture declares that the Spirit "is the earnest" of our inheritance "until the redemption" of the "purchased possession".

"Purchased possession" can only be souls because the blood is the focus. Souls possessed by Christ do not need additional works to have them more possessed or more saved by Christ.

These truths cannot be escaped. I would like to see Jump or anyone else define these scriptures in some other way. I have been waiting.

God Bless!

 

[DQuixote]

The soul is the mind, will, and emotions; one's earthly identity, then, is the soul. The spiritual/physical resurrection of Jesus allowed His identity to be maintained. In that earthly identity He appeared to many after His resurrection. He is, therefore, our model in this "soul" issue.

Jesus was crucified, dead, and buried, rose triumphant over death and the grave, rising to walk in newness of life, spirit, soul, and revitalized body. Those who are raptured and those followers of Christ who die will be reunited in newness of life in spirit, soul, and revitalized body. At the Judgment Seat of Christ, for what are we judged? Our Christian works done while on earth. Having received Christ as Savior, in what manner did we follow Him as Lord? That will be the basis for declaring our position in Heaven.

As I have explained it to friends and relatives, I love to sing solos, and duets with my wife, in church. However, I was called by Christ as a youngster to study music in order to become a minister of music. I, and my family and friends, recognized that call upon my life. In spite of that, I failed to study music. The vocal scholarship I acquired, I never used. The result of my failure?

In Heaven I may get to sing in the choir, but I won't be its director, and someone else will be chosen for solos. Perhaps my wife and I will be permitted to sing duets. Glory!

Spirit, Soul, Body. That's how it works, folks. Whatever my position in Heaven is, God will be glorified.

.......and now this identity has to go buy groceries.

:type: <-------shutting down computer.

 

[J. Jump]

We DO have "ONCE FOR ALL time" statements in the NT (Heb 10 for example speaking of the sacrifice of Christ - and also Heb 9) -- just not in Eph 2 and NOT in reference to individual salvation.

IF you DID have a "saved ONCE FOR ALL TIME" reference for individual salvation you surely would be wise to quote it - instead of taking a text WITHOUT the "ONCE for all time" language - such as Eph 2:8-9 and quoting it "instead".

By simply quoting a text that shows salvation to EXIST - you highlight the common ground ALL believe.

Bob you must not have an understanding of the Greek language that was used to write the NT then. Because the Greek word used for saved in Ephesians 2:8-9 declares salvation to be a once for all time event. It doesn't matter how much you don't want to believe it remains a fact that is undisputable.

It says you have been saved. It's a past action which the results remain forever. You simply can't change what is there. Why you won't believe that becomes the question.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob you must not have an understanding of the Greek language that was used to write the NT then. Because the Greek word used for saved in Ephesians 2:8-9 declares salvation to be a once for all time event. .

No it doesn't. There is no "irrevokable" tense in Greek employed in Eph 2.

But it is interesting that you need to insert the idea that this is some kind of "tense".

The word for saved in Eph 2:8 in greek - "sozo" means the same in English in terms of rescue and save. A simple example will suffice - To save someone's life by rescuing them from drowning or from fire does not mean they can never die! It does not dictate an irrevocable state of safety RATHER it indicates a PAST action of SAVING.

to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction

1. one (from injury or peril)
   1. to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health
   2. to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue
2. to save in the technical biblical sense
   1. negatively 1b
3. to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment 1b
4. to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance

In Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

Hi everyone. I took the time to email my brother who is heavily into this 'soul not yet saved' doctrine to see if he would answer my questions to Acts 20:28 and Eph 1:13-14. He emailed me right back and said no problem, that he would refresh his mind on it and get back to me asap. Even though my brother and I don't agree on this issue he has never been afraid to give answers to questions that challenge the doctrine. As soon as he emails me I will let you know what he said. It will be interesting I am sure :thumbs:

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

As promised, brother has come through. What he did was refer my questions to his former pastor who is always ready to give an answer.

This will take two post to complete because of the length. I will post all that he said. It will take some study to take in all that he is saying but in the end I think you will see the contradictions or at least the confusion in using such language when speaking about the soul. What you will observe is that one time he will say the soul is or will be saved by the blood and then another time he will say the soul is not saved. Read it carefully and try to figure it out.

Mike, Steve and Online Brother,

[My replies in blue, main Scriptures you pointed to in red, your questions in black]

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.[1] (Acts. 20.28)


For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.[2] (Lev. 17.11)

Rom5?

We have agreed that the blood is atonement for the soul. Rom 5 & Lev 17.
Therefore Acts 20:28 declares that believers (church of God) has been
purchased by the blood of Christ. Is this correct? If correct then it must
be the soul that is purchased because the blood is for the soul.

What a joy to know there are still people plunging into the Word of God this deeply. I have researched the Doctrines of the Kingdom and the Salvation of the Soul for nearly a quarter of a century now, and am currently compiling the research for my PhD. Dissertation. Let me see if I can help.

First, it is true that Acts 20.28 speaks of the shedding of Christ’s blood as the purchase price of our redemption. It is the overseers (pastors) charged with the responsibility to feed the flock, as they are the undershepherds of God’s congregations. The blood of Christ, the only blood worthy, has indeed purchased the Church to be placed on the mercy seat in the heavenly tabernacle following Jesus’ ascension to the Father.

The word “soul,” as used in the O.T., represents the life. As Lev. 17.11 states that the “life of the flesh is in the blood” we are to understand that “soul” and “life” are synonymous, and that the life, is the soul. That is, it is the soul that is the animating principle of the natural man. All men have souls. Contrary to the ideas of many, animals have souls as they are alive. What they don’t have is a spirit, and therefore they cannot have relationship with God, for He is only worshipped in Spirit and Truth, being a Spirit Himself (Jn. 4.24).

In the Old Testament, we get only a very dark foreshadow of the salvation of the soul. The doctrinal teaching of it was taught by Jesus in the New Testament, but it was very opaque, through “dark sayings” and parables. It was the Apostle Paul who was given the full revelation of this teaching. He called it “my gospel” in Rom 15.26, and unfolded it throughout his epistles, especially the prison epistles and Hebrews (as I believe Paul wrote Heb.) You need to think of the “soul” in Lev 17 (I assume you are referring to v.11) as the whole man. That is, the “living being.” From that verse then, we would take that the blood atones for the person, body, soul and spirit. There is no sense in Scripture that the blood atones for one part of man’s makeup and something else atones for other parts. Clearly, the blood of Jesus has paid the penalty for our sins, satisfied the Father’s justice in righteousness, and made atonement for us (all of us)—body, soul, and spirit—the total man.

Having established that, please recognize that the word “soul” is found nowhere in Romans 5. In fact, it is found only twice in the entire epistle, (Rom 2.9 and 13.1) and, like Lev. 17, makes general reference to the total man—i.e., to a living person in general. Therefore, the answer to your first question is this: it is not only the soul that is purchased by the blood, but the total man. There is no purpose or need to be so microscopic with Acts.20.28. It is a general statement that the context shows to be almost parenthetical to Luke’s writing and Paul’s words. He is merely making reference to the fact that the very blood of God (Jesus Christ) was shed to make atonement for man’s sin.

 

[steaver]

Now, your second question: 2) who possesses it. I say(Steve) it must be the soul
that was purchased because of Acts 20:28 and the blood is for the soul
according to Rom 5 and Lev 17, and it is Jesus who purchased it (Acts
20:28).
It is the Holy Spirit that Eph. 1.13, 14 speaks of, sealing the believer as the pledge, or down payment (meaning of the Greek word for “earnest”) of the “purchased possession,” which will one day in future eternity, be completely dominated by God. This verse speaks more to the issue of eternal security than to the salvation of the soul. It is without question the Spirit of God who possesses every born again individual. What else could it be? The verse literally says,

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; (v.7) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. (v.13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.[1]

Here we see that Christ has indeed saved us by his blood, and the Spirit (as Jesus promised in Jn. 14,15 and 16) has come as the parakletos, (literally, the Comforter that walks along side) to both seal and indwell us. The end of verse 14 points to the event of the rapture when our bodies will be raised to be with the Lord, completing the resurrection, and reunited with the spirit and soul, then to appear before the Bema –the Judgment Seat of Christ, to have the work done in that body, while on Earth, tested by fire to see what works are burned up and what works remain and are therefore rewarded. (2Cor.5.10; 1Cor.3.11-15). The only works that will remain are those done by the Holy Spirit through our lives (done in the power of the Spirit as opposed to the flesh), which would be impossible if the Spirit where not indwelling us and anointing us. It was for this purpose He came to indwell, and the reason Jesus said, “greater works than these shall ye do, because I go to the Father” (Jn.14.12).

So, the blood purchased the total man, and provides the necessary atonement for the whole of salvation (body, soul and spirit (1Thess. 5.23). We are saved by the blood of Jesus (Act.20.28) and sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise (Eph.1.13,14).

Please recognize that the salvation of the “soul” in particular, points to the redeemed one, having lived out his life (expressed his soul—this natural life in the world) under the indwelling and infilling of the Holy Spirit, in faith obedience to the Word of Truth. According to the individual’s results of the testing of his works at the Judgment Seat of Christ, his soul will be saved or lost, (receive reward or suffer loss of reward)…”yet he [i.e., the man—the total man] shall be saved so as by [through] fire.” (1Cor.3.15.). One should be careful not to force the salvation of the soul upon every verse they find the world “soul” mentioned. A good rule of thumb is to remember that God unfolds this doctrine in “types” (foreshadows, or pictures) in the Old Testament stories of the patriarchs of our faith. Then, unfolds the mystery of it further through the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. Also, don’t let the concept of “loss of soul” throw you. It does NOT mean that ones’ spirit can be saved and in heaven while his soul could still go to hell. Many critique that teaching of soul salvation with that note and end up throwing out the baby with the bath water. Remember that it is through our lives (souls) lived out, that we “work out” the salvation that God has worked in (Phil.2.12, 13) “for it is God that worketh in you, both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” While the salvation of the spirit is based on what Christ has done for us, the salvation of the soul is based on what we do (works) for Christ reciprocally. A life that experiences that salvation of the soul in the day of testing is one that served Christ faithfully while one earth. He was never satisfied with knowing Jesus as Savior, and pressed on to know Him as Lord and Master. He is the committed believer, who learns to follow Christ in such a way that his own personal life is swallowed up in Christ, through the power of the Spirit within. As Jesus poured out His life (His blood, his very soul) on the cross for us, so we pour out our very soul, our life, and if necessary our martyrs blood to glorify Him and follow Him faithfully. This is the meaning of:

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?[2] (Matt. 16.24-26).

I hope this has been helpful. Steve, please pass my answer in full along to your online brother by attachment. I invite both of you and others to contact me via email for further discussion. I am also entertaining the possibility of a Bible study sometime in the near future. Thanks for the privilege of joining into your discussion.

Grace be with you,

Greg

PS. I didn’t have time to proof read this, so please forgive my typo errors.

 

[steaver]

Just to clarify the last post containing blue, red and black print. This is a response from my brother's former pastor. His words are in blue, the red words are scripture and the black words are the questions that I had asked him.

God Bless!

 

[DQuixote]

Maybe this type presentation is long overdue. The key is for all of us to sharpen our pencils and put our spiritual caps on.

 

[steaver]

I emailed Greg about the confusion in his teaching. When he responds I will forward his answer.

(Greg)......Therefore, the answer to your first question is this: it is not only the soul that is purchased by the blood, but the total man.

So, the blood purchased the total man, and provides the necessary atonement for the whole of salvation (body, soul and spirit (1Thess. 5.23). We are saved by the blood of Jesus (Act.20.28) and sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise (Eph.1.13,14).

And then he states........

(Greg)....According to the individual’s results of the testing of his works at the Judgment Seat of Christ, his soul will be saved or lost, (receive reward or suffer loss of reward)…”yet he [i.e., the man—the total man] shall be saved so as by [through] fire.” (1Cor.3.15.).

Greg says the soul will be lost or saved at the judgment seat of Christ and the "total man" (which is body, soul, spirit) will be saved regardless in the same sentence. I asked him if there are two souls. I will let you know as soon as he writes me back.

God Bless!

 

[BobRyan]

Just to clarify the last post containing blue, red and black print. This is a response from my brother's former pastor. His words are in blue, the red words are scripture and the black words are the questions that I had asked him.
God Bless!

While I agree with you that the idea of soul lost while spirit saved is totally against all that is taught in scripture - I also think that the framing of your argument leaves a hole big enough to drive a truck through it since you are simply looking for "soul saved by the blood of Christ" which does not do enough to isolate the flaws in their doctrine.

 

[BobRyan]

Not ONLY can it be shown that a soul that turns to the gospel is saved - but even one who EVANGELIZES such a soul is said to "save their soul".

James 5:20
let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.


Paul writes that in the life of a saved person the spirit AND the soul are in the SAME state and perseverance is required to PRESERVE Them in that saved state.
Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

In the saved state our Soul is "anchored" firmly in Christ - But we just don't find it bent out to the extreme ideas of OSAS.

Hebrews 6:19
This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil,

"Soul Lost while person SAVED" and "Soul Lost while spirit saved" are not found once - no not in all of scripture.

 

[steaver]

"Soul Lost while person SAVED" and "Soul Lost while spirit saved" are not found once - no not in all of scripture.

Amen brother! :thumbs: