Same Holy Spirit, Great Divide

[saturneptune]

Several passages in the NT make it clear we are all guided by the same Holy Spirit as Christians. I expect differences from time to time, as this is a debate board. One of the positive things is that we grow and learn from others viewpoints. We cannot all be right. That is a process of spiritual maturity.

One of the top reasons for being a Christian in day to day life, aside from our growth here on earth and eternal life after earth is to tell others about the Gospel. What puzzles me more than anything is why are the most hardened positions and the greatest divides on issues that do not make one bit of difference in salvation.

All who have been here a while know the issues. KJVO, hatred of KJV (both are equally wrong), Calvinism vs free will (or the few that believe in a mix we do not understand), some end time issues, covenant vs dispy theology, and to a lesser degree, eternal security. As of late, the character of Calvin has been debated in several threads, one subject I am adamant about.

So why with the same Holy Spirit, why are we so far apart and hardened the less important the issue? Any explanations are appreciated. The purpose of this thread is not to debate Calvin, KJVO, etc. There are plenty of threads to do that.

 

[Oldtimer]

So why with the same Holy Spirit, why are we so far apart and hardened the less important the issue? Any explanations are appreciated. The purpose of this thread is not to debate Calvin, KJVO, etc. There are plenty of threads to do that.

I've often wondered the same thing, Saturneptune. The premise here is that everyone who participates, especially in the Baptist Only section of this board, is a member of the body of Christ. That we each share the same basic core belief in Christ and of the "Baptist" church. The Spirit of God dwells within each of us.

When knock-down, drag-out, fights erupt over the color of carpet down the center line, too often I'm reminded of an actual carpet color fight. Happened in our church when I was young. Deacons standing in the pews and yelling at each other over RED carpet. As a "new" Christian, that day left a negative impression which became part of the reason why I strayed from the church for far too long.

Perhaps 2 years ago, wrote a personal note that may one day become a Bible study class topic. Called My Berlin Wall. Briefly... how I had brick by brick built a wall in my heart surrounding the Holy Spirit. Blocking Him off in some corner. The wall was close to being complete, when a messenger brought me back into the church. The rest of the story is what it took to "Tear Down That Wall".

 

[Deacon]

• The Spirit's ministry in Bible interpretation does not mean He gives new revelation.
• The role of the Spirit in interpreting the Bible does not mean that one's interpretations are infallible.
• The Holy Spirit's role in interpreting Scripture requires spiritual devotion on the part of the interpreter.
• The Holy Spirit in interpretation means that lack of spiritual preparedness hinders accurate interpretation
• The role of the Spirit in interpretation is no substitute for diligent study.
• The ministry of the Holy Spirit in Bible interpretation does not mean interpreters can ignore common sense and logic.
• The role of the Spirit in scriptural interpretation does not mean that all parts of the Bible are equally clear in meaning.
• The Spirit's work in interpretation does not result in believers having a comprehensive and completely accurate understanding of the entire Scriptures.

The Role of the Holy Spirit in Hermeneutics
By Roy B. Zuck (Bibliotheca Sacra 141 (1984): 120-129.)

 

[Servent]

I had a disagreement with my wife this morning I asked her a question and she said do what you want, well when I did, it was not what she wanted and she got upset.
My point is that we all have different way's of of thinking, that just the way it is. when it comes to the bible for me it's this way.
When it's black and white get it right with all the rest do your best.

 

[Yeshua1]

Several passages in the NT make it clear we are all guided by the same Holy Spirit as Christians. I expect differences from time to time, as this is a debate board. One of the positive things is that we grow and learn from others viewpoints. We cannot all be right. That is a process of spiritual maturity.

One of the top reasons for being a Christian in day to day life, aside from our growth here on earth and eternal life after earth is to tell others about the Gospel. What puzzles me more than anything is why are the most hardened positions and the greatest divides on issues that do not make one bit of difference in salvation.

All who have been here a while know the issues. KJVO, hatred of KJV (both are equally wrong), Calvinism vs free will (or the few that believe in a mix we do not understand), some end time issues, covenant vs dispy theology, and to a lesser degree, eternal security. As of late, the character of Calvin has been debated in several threads, one subject I am adamant about.

So why with the same Holy Spirit, why are we so far apart and hardened the less important the issue? Any explanations are appreciated. The purpose of this thread is not to debate Calvin, KJVO, etc. There are plenty of threads to do that.

Think that this usually haoppens due to couple major factors...

We are holding to extreme side of an issue, as our position is only/right way to view it...

Should be that my view reflects closer to the bible viewpoint, butnot only valdid way, or only one scriptures can support!

Also, we just refuse to apply the strong comand from the lord to do all that is within our means to keep the unity among the bethren!

We can and should by all means discuss avrying views among us, but not to the point of sinning and grieving the HS !

I keep coming bck tot he point that jesus prayed to the father that real christians would be One with each other and with him, as he and the father are!

How well have we be doing meeting that request of the lord?

 

[saturneptune]

Think that this usually haoppens due to couple major factors...

We are holding to extreme side of an issue, as our position is only/right way to view it...

Should be that my view reflects closer to the bible viewpoint, butnot only valdid way, or only one scriptures can support!

Also, we just refuse to apply the strong comand from the lord to do all that is within our means to keep the unity among the bethren!

We can and should by all means discuss avrying views among us, but not to the point of sinning and grieving the HS !

I keep coming bck tot he point that jesus prayed to the father that real christians would be One with each other and with him, as he and the father are!

How well have we be doing meeting that request of the lord?

For sure I have not done the best I could. I have altered my ideas in many areas since being here including coming to understand that what is called Calvinism is what Scripture teaches. Limited atonement was the last and hardest for me to accept. I have also changed from a premil pretrib to a neutral stance. This is growth. However, as God is my witness, I will not, for the sake of unity, join in praising an obvious monster that got his name attached to the doctrine of sovereignty. I also will not allow those promoting it to characterize all who know Calvin is the murderer he was, add to that false witness and probably thief, that they are Arminian by default. That is not true. I despise Calvin with every fiber of my being, and am not in any shape, form or fashion, an Arminian.

 

[Yeshua1]

For sure I have not done the best I could. I have altered my ideas in many areas since being here including coming to understand that what is called Calvinism is what Scripture teaches. Limited atonement was the last and hardest for me to accept. I have also changed from a premil pretrib to a neutral stance. This is growth. However, as God is my witness, I will not, for the sake of unity, join in praising an obvious monster that got his name attached to the doctrine of sovereignty. I also will not allow those promoting it to characterize all who know Calvin is the murderer he was, add to that false witness and probably thief, that they are Arminian by default. That is not true. I despise Calvin with every fiber of my being, and am not in any shape, form or fashion, an Arminian.

My pastor said that theologians who hold to differences actually manage toargue even minute areas in a reasonable way, so if those who discuss over things such as free will/sovereignity without going bonkers, why can't we?

that is a big thing that gets hard to take, is when we automatically label something as evil/bad/destructive...

I prefer to say wrong/misunderstanding/not as biblcally etc!

 

[saturneptune]

My pastor said that theologians who hold to differences actually manage toargue even minute areas in a reasonable way, so if those who discuss over things such as free will/sovereignity without going bonkers, why can't we?

that is a big thing that gets hard to take, is when we automatically label something as evil/bad/destructive...

I prefer to say wrong/misunderstanding/not as biblcally etc!

Yes you are correct. The proper phrase should have been, Rippon is Biblically challanged.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes you are correct. The proper phrase should have been, Rippon is Biblically challanged.

good! that is your opinion, but don't wander into slandering the Niv 2011!

 

[Rippon]

The proper phrase should have been, Rippon is Biblically[sic] challanged.[sic]

Specifics please. Be sure to document. I know you are not into that. But give it an old grade school try.

 

[saturneptune]

Specifics please. Be sure to document. I know you are not into that. But give it an old grade school try.

Try the fact that you feel compelled to defend someone who ignores the commandment not to kill, a supposed leader of the Christian church.

 

[Zenas]

So why with the same Holy Spirit, why are we so far apart and hardened the less important the issue? Any explanations are appreciated. The purpose of this thread is not to debate Calvin, KJVO, etc. There are plenty of threads to do that.

That's a good question and, unless you believe the Holy Spirit is the author of confusion, we are not guided by the Holy Spirit in matters of scriptural interpretation. Two people being led by the Holy Spirit cannot arrive at opposite conclusions.

 

[plain_n_simple]

"So why with the same Holy Spirit, why are we so far apart and hardened the less important the issue?"

It is not the same spirit.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Several passages in the NT make it clear we are all guided by the same Holy Spirit as Christians. I expect differences from time to time, as this is a debate board. One of the positive things is that we grow and learn from others viewpoints. We cannot all be right. That is a process of spiritual maturity.

One of the top reasons for being a Christian in day to day life, aside from our growth here on earth and eternal life after earth is to tell others about the Gospel. What puzzles me more than anything is why are the most hardened positions and the greatest divides on issues that do not make one bit of difference in salvation.

All who have been here a while know the issues. KJVO, hatred of KJV (both are equally wrong), Calvinism vs free will (or the few that believe in a mix we do not understand), some end time issues, covenant vs dispy theology, and to a lesser degree, eternal security. As of late, the character of Calvin has been debated in several threads, one subject I am adamant about.

So why with the same Holy Spirit, why are we so far apart and hardened the less important the issue? Any explanations are appreciated. The purpose of this thread is not to debate Calvin, KJVO, etc. There are plenty of threads to do that.

"We have this treasure in earthen vessels".

"We all see through a glass, darkly."

 

[saturneptune]

"We have this treasure in earthen vessels".

"We all see through a glass, darkly."

Do you think after we all get to heaven, that any of these questions will matter to us? I guess one I would like to know now is which of the hundreds of denominations comes the closest to Scriptural model of a NT church, aside from all these other differences.

Somehow I think that in the physical presence of the Lord, the questions will not even enter our minds.

 

[saturneptune]

"So why with the same Holy Spirit, why are we so far apart and hardened the less important the issue?"

It is not the same spirit.

Would you use that statement to explain the hundreds of denomintions and sub groups we have out of the Book of Acts? That is a heap of different spirits.

 

[Yeshua1]

Would you use that statement to explain the hundreds of denomintions and sub groups we have out of the Book of Acts? That is a heap of different spirits.

better to ask him why the HS is supposely involved in charasmatic chaos, where there are false doctrines/teachings/practicies all over the map, all under name of "jesus told me/HS showed me!"

 

[Yeshua1]

Would you use that statement to explain the hundreds of denomintions and sub groups we have out of the Book of Acts? That is a heap of different spirits.

Most of that is due to manmade doctrines, bad bible exegesis, and some due to demonic deluding spirits!

 

[sag38]

Just read the first post. Could it be that in these things that we are not guided by the Holy Spirit? Rather, this is the work of the enemy posing as an angel of light and creating a divide amongst the sheep. (A divide and conquer strategy that seems to be working pretty well) I recall disagreeing with a Calvinist on here at one point. For one thing, I struggle with accepting Irresistible Grace and rather than discussing my concerns he, in a seemingly subtle way, giving the appearance of following the rules, questioned my salvation. Good grief, that's not the Holy Spirit at work. That was something else. And, so that I am not accused of picking on Calvinist brethren I've seen some on the other side act just as ugly.

 

[Rippon]

Would you use that statement to explain the hundreds of denomintions[sic] and sub groups we have out of the Book of Acts?

Out of the book of Acts?

That is a heap of different spirits.

Because there are many different denominations does not mean that each has a different spirit!

There is one Holy Spirit. Many denominations started over a certain perception of what they thought of as proper Bible doctrine. A number have been mistaken. Some have imbibed false doctrine. Others have needlessly begun a new grouping over non-essentials. It's not a matter of one size fits all.