Samuel Trott on Predestination

rlvaughn · Sep 12, 2003

ELDER SAMUEL TROTT ON PREDESTINATION, 1845

Predestination...is a formative from two Latin words, prae (before), and destinatio (a purpose, destination, determination, etc.), so to predestinate is formed of prae and destino, of like import. Hence to predestinate is to purpose, to determine beforehand. So the Greek word rendered to predestinate, signifies to define, to bound, to determine, etc., beforehand. Hence predestination is a counseling, purposing or determining beforehand. And these words, as is well known, relate to the conclusion a person arrives at relative to his own future management, rather than to a rule to be observed by others. Thus men predestinate, not absolutely, at least not with certainty, for whilst all is certainty with God, time and chance happeneth to all men. A man predestinates to build a house; he predestinates the size, the form, the kind of materials, the class of workmen he will employ, etc., and if he knew, as God knows, he would predestinate the exact time and expense it should take; and this predestination is to govern his own arrangements in contracting for, and ordering the building, etc. So God’s predestination is that according to which He governs the world; and conducts all things relative to salvation and glory. It extends with the utmost precision to every event that occurs under His dominion, even to the fall of a sparrow, and to the hairs of our head, and to the small dust of the balance; for nations are counted as the small dust of the balance by Him; and His infinitude extends as directly to the notice of the one as the other, Matthew 10:29-30; Isaiah 40:15. So the term predestination is evidently used in the New Testament; as in Romans 8:29, "He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son". This is not given as a rule to which the elect must conform themselves, but a declaration of what God, by His grace, will do with, and for them. And so in Ephesians 1:5.

Thus, while God’s decree forbade Adam’s eating of the tree of knowledge, He predestinated his eating of it; that is, God foreknowing with certainty that Adam, if left to encounter the temptation in his own creaturely weakness, would sin, predestinated so to leave him to meet the temptation, and to permit the temptation to be presented to him. So every sin which God permits to take place in the world, from the greatest to the least, from the crucifying of Christ to the parting of His garments among the soldiers, God predestinated its taking place and its working for the greater good. Acts 2:23, and 4:27-28; and Psalm 22:18, compared with Matthew 27:35. This predestination is not a constraining the will of the individuals, but a leaving them to act it out under the attending circumstances. Thus God works all things after the counsel of His own will (Ephesians 1:11), permitting sin to transpire where He sees it for good, and restraining it in other cases; and constraining by His providence, or grace, to acts of goodness, etc.
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Elder Trott gives an explanation of how in the realm of God's predestination sin may take place for the greater good, yet without God compelling the will of individuals. Your thoughts: Agree? Disagree? Other?

Frogman · Sep 13, 2003

I agree with that article.

Bro. Dallas

rlvaughn · Sep 14, 2003

Thanks for the comments, Bro. Dallas. Perhaps it would have been good to include the last paragraph:

As to our saying that the foreknowledge and predestination of God are synonymous - we do not say so. We say that from the nature of things, they must go together, and be mutually dependent one on the other. We do not admit that God predestinated any event merely because He foreknew it would take place, but because, from His foreknowledge of all things and circumstances, He in infinite wisdom saw that it would be for the greater good. God cannot foreknow any event unless it is certain, because His foreknowledge is unerring; and it cannot be certain unless He has determined concerning it, and all circumstances leading to it. Thus the prophecies of God, in their accomplishment, are a standing proof of His absolute predestination in all things.
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Frogman · Sep 15, 2003

Bro. Vaughn,
My comments are limited, I don't believe any thing I could say could add anything to what you have quoted.

Bro. Dallas

Sularis · Sep 15, 2003

Thus God is the author of sin

- The article is flawed - ESPECIALLY the last quote - and if you reread the whole post in the light of the linked foreknowledge/predestination

one gets sick

God knows everything not because He set it up - Gods foreknowledge is greater then that - it is such that He knows everything, past,present, future, possible, practical, real and fictional - no matter who the originator is

tyndale1946 · Sep 15, 2003

I disagree with the term predestination used... I feel allowed or permissive will would be a better term... To Primitive Baptist predestination is a term that means destination afore time... Did God predestinate the crucifiction of his own son or by his permissive will allow it?... I believe the latter!

Then there is Absolute Predestination along with foreordination and the word ordained... Again what is ordained or foreordained and predestinated and are not these words similar or are they only examined according to the foreknowledge of God?... According to his purpose they are called but predestination is so they will be conformed into the image of his Son... Predestination is for confirmation only and not for everything pro or con that leads to it... It is only mentioned four times in scripture Romans 8:29-30 and Ephesians 1:5 and 11 and only applies to the redeemed in Christ... Interesting article but those are my thoughts!... Brother Glen

Frogman · Sep 15, 2003

Bro. Glenn,

Didn't you read what I wrote????

rlvaughn · Sep 16, 2003

Originally posted by tyndale1946:
Did God predestinate the crucifixion of his own son or by his permissive will allow it?... I believe the latter!
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Brother Glen, though we may disagree about the extent of predestination and things predestinated, I think the scriptures are very clear that God did predestinate the crucifixion of His son. For example:

Acts 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: 25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
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God's counsel determined before (prooizo, same word also translated predestinate) the crucifixion of Christ. Consider also:

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
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and

Luke 22:22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
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If God determined before (predetermined or predestinated) the crucifixion of His Son, this shows the predestination is broader than just determining beforehand concerning those whom He would elect. Also Acts 17:26 indicates that at least some times and events are determined before:

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
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rlvaughn · Sep 16, 2003

Originally posted by Sularis:
God knows everything...past,present, future, possible, practical, real and fictional - no matter who the originator is
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Sularis, if it is true that God knows everything (and I believe it is true, though since He knows everything He knows that which is fictional or suppositional is nothing, unlike us not knowing whether it is), then what could be wrong with Trott's conclusion on the fall - "...God foreknowing with certainty that Adam, if left to encounter the temptation in his own creaturely weakness, would sin, predestinated so to leave him to meet the temptation, and to permit the temptation to be presented to him...This predestination is not a constraining the will of the individuals, but a leaving them to act it out under the attending circumstances. Thus God works all things after the counsel of His own will (Ephesians 1:11), permitting sin to transpire where He sees it for good, and restraining it in other cases; and constraining by His providence, or grace, to acts of goodness, etc." Certainly God 'permitted sin to transpire' in the case of evil men crucifying His innocent Son, which He saw for good.

Samuel Trott on Predestination

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