Sanctification

[mailmandan]

Sorry you are confused Dan and this is just simply wrong and misleading!

Actually, it's you who is confused, wrong, misleading, arrogant and you have truly mastered the art of deception!

Firstly there is no contradiction between HEBREWS 10:29 and HEBREWS 10:10 and HEBREWS 10:14 ands here is why;

There is no contradiction between Hebrews 10:29 and Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 10:14 because those in Hebrews 10:29 were "set apart" or "treated as holy" but not saved, so they were not "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) or "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So the word "sanctified" doesn't always mean "saved."

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses the word "sanctified" to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" / "set apart" / "treated as holy" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to "make holy," "purify," or "treat as holy," "set apart as holy," depending on the context.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

If you simply give the word "sanctified" a broad brushed definition of "saved," then you would have to say that the 7th day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the vessel and the bread were saved (1 Samuel 21:5) the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) the unbelieving husband was saved (1 Corinthians 7:14) along with other scriptures that do not line up with your presuppositions.

HEBREWS 10:10-14 is in reference and CONTEXT to HEBREWS 10:1-9 which is comparing the SHADOW laws in sin offerings and burnt offereings for forgiveness of sin from the OLD COVENANT *HEBREWS 10:1-9 that was daily to Christs perfect sacrifice HEBREWS 10:10-14 which only had to be offered once for all the sins of all mankind past, present and into the future (all time) *HEBREWS 10:10-14 as being all sufficient to those who believe and follow God's Word. The meaning here is no more animal sacrifices for sin are required because Chrsits death on the cross is our complete sacrifice everytime sin is committed to those who are "sanctified" *HEBREWS 10:29; once and for all *HEBREWS 10:10 and for all time *HEBREWS 10:14.

Hebrews 10:9 - then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second. *Still does not change the fact that in verse 10 By this we (believers) have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. It also does not change the fact that in verse 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. Only genuine believers properly believe and follow God's Word and not people in false religions and cults. *Your loss of salvation interpretation of Hebrews 10:29 remains in contradiction to Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 10:14. Period.

Moving on to HEBREWS 10:23-27 we come to the "WARNINGS" to "BELIEVERS" to "HOLD FAST THE PROFESSION OF OUR FAITH" *HEBREWS 10:23 NOT TO " SIN WILLFULLY AFTER RECEIVING AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD *HEBREWS 10:26; then to HEBREWS 10:29 [29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?

The letter of Hebrews is written to a large group of Hebrews which is made up of believers and non-believers mixed in with the group (just as we see in Hebrews 4:1-3), hence the warnings. Believers are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ one for all/perfected for all time. In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action that is a matter of PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). You need to learn how to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine. You also need to learn what a true believer is. Believing and following the false teachings of the SDA cult is not believing and following God's Word.

 

[mailmandan]

The WARNING here in context is to "BELIEVERS" (THOSE WHO ARE SANCTIFIED BY THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT - CHRIST SACRIFICE) not to "SIN WILLFULLY" after receiving a KNOWLEDGE of the truth *HEBREWS 10:26 continuing to HEBREWS 10:29 of those who BELIEVERS who "SIN WILLFULLY" [29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he (those who sin willfully) be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified ἁγιάζω, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?

Once again, the unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the CONTEXT, "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart as holy," "treated as holy" and identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received and trampled underfoot the Son of God. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

The CONTEXT of v29 clearly shows that PAUL is addressing the BELIEVERS. The section above concludes with...

ALL of the letters in the NT are written "to" believers, yet that does not mean that everyone in a group of professing believers "is" a genuine believer. Don't be so naive. If a Pastor of a church *especially a very large church" greeted the congregation with "good morning brothers and sisters in Christ" and the sermon is addressed to believers, does that mean that EVERYONE who attended church that day MUST be a believer? Of course not! Have you read the parable of the wheat and the tares? It really comes into perspective.

[35], Cast not away therefore your confidence, which has great recompense of reward.
[36], For you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of God, you might receive the promise.
[37], For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
[38], Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back [Believers going back to willful sin see v26-29], my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
[39], But we are not of them who draw back to perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Anyone can "profess" to have confidence and be a believer, but failing to hold that confidence stedfast unto the end proves otherwise. The just live by faith, but those who draw back demonstrate that faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start. Verse 26 says nothing about "believers going back to willfully sinning." That is your ADDED commentary. Willfully sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth means there was no heart submission to the truth, but a rejection of the truth. Unbelievers. There are genuine believers and there are make believers. Proverbs 6:19 - A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren. 2 Corinthians 11:26 - in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren. Galatians 2:4 - And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage) - That sounds so familiar.

Context is very clear don't you think and it is not teaching what you are.

Context is very clear and it proves your arguments to be flawed and biased.

Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.

Then why do you ignore it? Why do you refuse to REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL?

There is a more detailed scripture study on HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 in the linked post for anyone interested in the linked post below...

WARNINGS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH (HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39)

Not for anyone who is interested in the truth. Just more long winded posts full of scripture twisting, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and SDA propaganda.

Hope this helps

Hope you find your way out of the SDA cult. I will continue to pray for you.

 

[3rdAngel]

Actually, it's you who is confused, wrong, misleading, arrogant and you have truly mastered the art of deception!

Now Dan no need to be upset and angry brother. You have been provided God's Word which can be a blessing to you if you let it be but you choose to ignore God's Word with your words that are not God's. You have been shown why your in error from the Word of God alone in the scripture context you leave out of your interpretation of the scriptures as shown in post # 17. Your response is to ignore God's Word which are not my words but God's.

There is no contradiction between Hebrews 10:29 and Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 10:14 because those in Hebrews 10:29 were "set apart" or "treated as holy" but not saved, so they were not "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) or "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So the word "sanctified" doesn't always mean "saved."

Dan your only repeating yourself here brother without addressing any of the scripture content and context provided in post # 17. In this post we went through the scriptures already showing that there was no contradiction in HEBREWS 10:10 and HEBREWS 10:14 with HEBREWS 10:29 as we added back the context you left out from HEBREWS 10:1-9 which shows the topic of reference to HEBREWS 10:10 and HEBREWS 10:14 is to the SHADOW laws in sin offerings that pointed to Christs perfect sacrifice for sin being once and for all and for all sin for those who believe and follow God's Word. In reference to HEBREWS 10:29 you claim that when it is written [29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he (those who sin willfully) be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified ἁγιάζω, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?

CONTEXT: here to this WARNING to BELIEVERS (If WE v26) is to those who were "ONCE BELIEVERS that SIN WILLFULLY after receiveing a knowledge of the truth. HEBREWS 10:29 stating their punishment after being sanctified ἁγιάζω, (past tense to was)

Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 37: sanctified ἁγιάζω means to purify by expiation, free from the guilt of sin : 1 Corinthians 6:11; Ephesians 5:26; Hebrews 10:10, Hebrews 10:14, Hebrews 10:29; Hebrews 13:12; Hebrews 2:11 (equivalent to כִּפֶר, Exodus 29:33, 36); cf. Pfleiderer, Paulinismus, p. 340ff (English translation 2:68f).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to sanctify From hagios; to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate -- hallow, be holy, sanctify.

NOTE: sanctified ἁγιάζω as you claim does not mean set apart here! It is in reference to those who had (past tense) received the blood of the covenant and count it an "UNHOLY THING" and to those who received God's Spirit but grieve (insulted) it v29.

The context you leave out and the word definition from God's Word shows why you are in error.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses the word "sanctified" to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" / "set apart" / "treated as holy" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to "make holy," "purify," or "treat as holy," "set apart as holy," depending on the context.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

I already posted the GREEK word definition to you and sanctified ἁγιάζω application is NOT in reference to simply being set apart it is in reference to being set apart as holy this was shown in the previous section and also in post # 17 that you simply ignored.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 37: sanctified ἁγιάζω means to purify by expiation, free from the guilt of sin : 1 Corinthians 6:11; Ephesians 5:26; Hebrews 10:10, Hebrews 10:14, Hebrews 10:29; Hebrews 13:12; Hebrews 2:11 (equivalent to כִּפֶר, Exodus 29:33, 36); cf. Pfleiderer, Paulinismus, p. 340ff (English translation 2:68f). Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

1 CORINTIANS 7:14 has nothing to do with HEBREWS 10:26-39 and is different subject matter that is not relevant to the conversation in HEBREWS 10 as it is not in relation to apsotasy and departing the faith *HEBREWS 10:26-39 but is in relation to the"UNBELIEVING" spouse being sanctified ἁγιάζω made holy by the "BELIEVING" spouse being one flesh in marriage.

If you simply give the word "sanctified" a broad brushed definition of "saved," then you would have to say that the 7th day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the vessel and the bread were saved (1 Samuel 21:5) the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) the unbelieving husband was saved (1 Corinthians 7:14) along with other scriptures that do not line up with your presuppositions.

Well it seem Strawmandan is back making claims and arguments no one is talking about again. Where have I given the GREEK word sanctified ἁγιάζω a broad definiation that is not according to the scriptures when I have posted the precise meaning of sanctified ἁγιάζω as used in HEBREWS 10:29 as shown in post # 17? If I have posted the exact definition and applied it that way why do you pretend that I haven't? Where did I ever post that sanctified ἁγιάζω means "saved" if I have never posted that sanctified ἁγιάζω means "saved" why are you pretending that I have? Now if I have never said any of these things Dan your whole agument that your trying to build just falls over because you trying to make an argument that no one is saying or believes and is simply a distraction to avoid answering the post and scriptures provided in post # 17 that who why your in error.

continued...

 

[3rdAngel]

Hebrews 10:9 - then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second. *Still does not change the fact that in verse 10 By this we (believers) have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. It also does not change the fact that in verse 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. Only genuine believers properly believe and follow God's Word and not people in false religions and cults. *Your loss of salvation interpretation of Hebrews 10:29 remains in contradiction to Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 10:14. Period.

Nope! Your only twisting the scriptures and trying to make them say things they are not because your not considering the CONTEXT your leaving out in taking HEBREWS 10:10 and HEBREWS 10:14 out of CONTEXT to HEBREWS 10:1-9. Now HEBREWS 10:10 and HEBREWS 10:14 are not saying or teaching "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" otherwise HEBREWS 10:26-39 latter in the chapter would not be WARNING "BELIEVERS" not to depart the faith and draw back to sin *HEBREWS 10:26-29. HEBREWS 10:10-14 is in reference and CONTEXT to HEBREWS 10:1-9 which is comparing the SHADOW laws in sin offerings and burnt offereings for forgiveness of sin from the OLD COVENANT *HEBREWS 10:1-9 that was daily to Christs perfect sacrifice HEBREWS 10:10-14 which only had to be offered once for all the sins of all mankind past, present and into the future (all time) *HEBREWS 10:10-14 as being all sufficient to those who believe and follow God's Word. The meaning here is no more animal sacrifices for sin are required because Chrsits death on the cross is our complete sacrifice everytime sin is committed to those who are "sanctified" *HEBREWS 10:29; once and for all *HEBREWS 10:10 and for all time *HEBREWS 10:14. Context matters brother and cherry picking scripture is only wresting scripture to your own destruction on your part. This is only sent in love and as a help to you.

The letter of Hebrews is written to a large group of Hebrews which is made up of believers and non-believers mixed in with the group (just as we see in Hebrews 4:1-3), hence the warnings. Believers are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ one for all/perfected for all time. In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action that is a matter of PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). You need to learn how to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine. You also need to learn what a true believer is. Believing and following the false teachings of the SDA cult is not believing and following God's Word.

Now Dan are you really trying to argue that the WARNINGS in HEBREWS 10:26-29 are not for BELIEVERS but UNBELIEVERS? I am not sure about your bible but mine says "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness *2 TIMOTHY 3:16 and again "all these things happened to them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the world are come *1 CORINTHIANS 10:11.

The WARNINGS outlined in God's WORD in HEBREWS 10:26-39 are written to and for BELIEVERS not unbelievers. HEBREWS 10:10 and HEBREWS 10:14 is in reference to Christs perfect sacrifice being sufficient for all sin once and for all *HEBREWS 10:10 and for all time *HEBREWS 10:14 (no more animal sacrifices and burnt offerings) when compared to the OLD COVENANT sin offerieng outlined in HEBREWS 10:1-9. So does not teach "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" your reading into the scriptures something that it does not say or teach by leaving out the scripture context of HEBREWS 10:1-9.

HEBREWS 10:26-39 on the other hand are "WARNINGS" to believers not unbelievers. To prove this

1. WE (BELIEVERS) return back to a life of known unrepentant SIN; HEBREWS 10:26
2. WE (BELIEVERS) being those who have received a knowledge of the truth; HEBREWS 10:26
3. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive the judgments of God; HEBREWS 10:27
4. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive a greater punishment for returning to a life of known unrepentant sin because we have receved a knowledge of the truth and turned away from it; HEBREWS 10:29

5. WE (BELIEVERS) by returning back to known unrepentant sin after we receive a knowledge of the truth we count the blood of the covenant an UNHOLY thing and do despite to the Spirit of Grace; HEBREWS 10:29

6. WE (BELIEVERS) are warned not to CAST AWAY our confidence which has great reward; HEBREWS 10:35

7. WE (BELIEVERS) receive God's promise after we do God's will; HEBREWS 10:36
8. WE (BELIEVERS) are WARNED NOT TO DRAW BACK INTO UNBELIEF; HEBREWS 10:38

As you can see here all of the above is Gods Word not mine and the scripture application and context is to believers drawing back to something that is not the Gospel of Christ. The application here is universal. If we draw back to anything that is not the gospel of Christ and continue to sin willfully after we receive a knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of judgment.

Sorry brother as shown through the scriptures alone Gods Word disagrees with you. Can you see your error here? Context matters and you have provided none

Hope this helps.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel wrote: The WARNING here in context is to "BELIEVERS" (THOSE WHO ARE SANCTIFIED BY THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT - CHRIST SACRIFICE) not to "SIN WILLFULLY" after receiving a KNOWLEDGE of the truth *HEBREWS 10:26 continuing to HEBREWS 10:29 of those who BELIEVERS who "SIN WILLFULLY" [29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he (those who sin willfully) be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified ἁγιάζω, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?

Your reply...

Once again, the unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition. So after considering the CONTEXT, "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart as holy," "treated as holy" and identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received and trampled underfoot the Son of God. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

Nothing you have provided here addresses any of the scripture content provided in the "WARNINGS" to believers in HEBREWS 10:26-39. What you have ignored is that HEBREWS 10:26-39 is addressing "BELIEVERS" not to "SIN WILLFULLY" after receiving a "KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. PAUL puts himself into the same "WARNING" saying "IF WE (BELIEVERS) SIN WILLFULLY" v26 and has already been demonstrated from the previous post this theme is written all through HEBREWS 10:26-39... 1. WE (BELIEVERS) return back to a life of known unrepentant SIN; HEBREWS 10:26 2. WE (BELIEVERS) being those who have received a knowledge of the truth; HEBREWS 10:26 3. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive the judgments of God; HEBREWS 10:27 4. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive a greater punishment for returning to a life of known unrepentant sin because we have receved a knowledge of the truth and turned away from it; HEBREWS 10:29 5. WE (BELIEVERS) by returning back to known unrepentant sin after we receive a knowledge of the truth we count the blood of the covenant an UNHOLY thing and do despite to the Spirit of Grace; HEBREWS 10:29 6. WE (BELIEVERS) are warned not to CAST AWAY our confidence which has great reward; HEBREWS 10:35 7. WE (BELIEVERS) receive God's promise after we do God's will; HEBREWS 10:39 8. WE (BELIEVERS) are WARNED NOT TO DRAW BACK INTO UNBELIEF; HEBREWS 10:38

This is a WARNING to BELIEVERS not to "SIN WILLFULLY AFTER WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" v26. Those who were once believers that draw back and leave the faith were "ONCE BELIEVERS" this is outlined as they were "BELIEVERS" WHO WERE SANCTIFIED BY THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT - CHRIST SACRIFICE) but "SINNED WILLFULLY" after receiving a KNOWLEDGE of the truth *HEBREWS 10:26 and count the blood of the covenant, with which they were sanctified ἁγιάζω, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace. This warning is referring to those who fall into apostasy τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς χάριτος ἐνυβρίσας, “and insult the spirit of grace”. The spirit of grace is the distinctive gift of Christian times to those who are sanctified by faith in the blood of the covenant. To have blasphemed this gracious Spirit, who brings the assurance of God’s presence and pardon, and gifts suited to each believer, is to renounce all part in things spiritual. HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 2:4; EPHESIANS 4:7

Can you see your error here brother. You have no considered CONTEXT and context matters.

ALL of the letters in the NT are written "to" believers, yet that does not mean that everyone in a group of professing believers "is" a genuine believer. Don't be so naive. If a Pastor of a church *especially a very large church" greeted the congregation with "good morning brothers and sisters in Christ" and the sermon is addressed to believers, does that mean that EVERYONE who attended church that day MUST be a believer? Of course not! Have you read the parable of the wheat and the tares? It really comes into perspective.

Anyone can "profess" to have confidence and be a believer, but failing to hold that confidence stedfast unto the end proves otherwise. The just live by faith, but those who draw back demonstrate that faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start. Verse 26 says nothing about "believers going back to willfully sinning." That is your ADDED commentary. Willfully sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth means there was no heart submission to the truth, but a rejection of the truth. Unbelievers. There are genuine believers and there are make believers. Proverbs 6:19 - A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren. 2 Corinthians 11:26 - in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren. Galatians 2:4 - And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage) - That sounds so familiar. Context is very clear and it proves your arguments to be flawed and biased.
Then why do you ignore it? Why do you refuse to REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL?
Not for anyone who is interested in the truth. Just more long winded posts full of scripture twisting, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and SDA propaganda.Hope you find your way out of the SDA cult. I will continue to pray for you.

Dan the rest your post here is only your words and accusations and name calling that have no truth in them and are a distration so you do no have to respond to the scriptures in the posts and scriptures provided to you that show why your in error. Do you have any scriptures to share? It seems you do not. If you have no scripture to share that suports your teaching why do you deny God's Word that is only shared in love and as a help to you? Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.

Hope this helps.

 

[mailmandan]

Now Dan no need to be upset and angry brother.

Oh I'm just so upset. LOL! I'm done wasting my time reading through your long winded posts full of scripture twisting, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and SDA propaganda. Again, you truly have mastered the art of deception and have proven to be thoroughly indoctrinated and unteachable.

If the truth is what you are looking for, then you will find it in the posts that I have shared with you that back up my arguments with scripture. If accommodating your biased SDA church doctrine is the only thing you are interested in, then you won't find the truth no matter many times that I or anyone else shares it with you.

You make a good lawyer for the SDA cult, but not for the Lord. Ellen G White would have been very proud of her disciple. Oh, I see that others are catching onto your nonsense as well:

It's not only this thread brother Squire, it is every thread our friend posts in. The condescending tone of this individual is beyond the pale and every one is wrong but him. Not only the people on this board, but every person down through the history of Christianity - from every Pope, every Eastern Orthodox Metropolitan, Martin Luther, John Smyth, Billy Graham, every theologian of every Christian denomination down through the ages - all are in the same boat, wrong except him.

Face it, we should all just be quiet and toe the line of his most spectacular thoughts and biblical declarations. Only he has the truth, a direct connection to God, an insight that none of us can never have. It is just he who can see through the lines of the words of Scripture and come out with the correct meanings.

We should be humbled and extremely thankful that he has taken the time to come to this board . He is here to instruct us, to guide us, and to lead us into all truth, don't you realize that?

So I proclaim to all, behold 3rd Angel - the greatest biblical scholar to ever walk the face of the earth!

 

[3rdAngel]

Oh I'm just so upset. LOL! I'm done wasting my time reading through your long winded posts full of scripture twisting, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and SDA propaganda. Again, you truly have mastered the art of deception and have proven to be thoroughly indoctrinated and unteachable.

If the truth is what you are looking for, then you will find it in the posts that I have shared with you that back up my arguments with scripture. If accommodating your biased SDA church doctrine is the only thing you are interested in, then you won't find the truth no matter many times that I or anyone else shares it with you.

You make a good lawyer for the SDA cult, but not for the Lord. Ellen G White would have been very proud of her disciple. Oh, I see that others are catching onto your nonsense as well:

Well I am sorry for you Dan, you should receive the posts of correction in the Spirit they were given, in love and only sent as a help to you. Ignoring Gods Word and name calling does not really help your position brother as it is Gods Word not mine that has been shared with you. We either have scripture for our position or we do not. It seems dear brother you do not. Perhaps this will be something for you to pray about. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear. Let me know when your finished with the name calling and you want to discuss the scriptures. I pray and wish you only the best and all love in the Lord.

 

[37818]

All I hear in your post here are your words denying God's WORD when you have been shown why you are in error from God's Word alone by leaving out the context from your interpretation of the scriptures that have been shown side by side. . . .

Again, you make a false acusation, ". . . your words denying God's WORD . . . ." Quote me and place my quote side by side with the word of God.
Have you not read, that the accuser of our brethren will be cast down, who accused them before our God day and night, Revelation 12:10, ". . . the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. . . ."?

The Apostle Paul wrote the Corinthians church, ". . . Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 1:10.

Well? Are we going to play Satans game and viciously fight each other or are we going to try to find common ground to deal with where we might find we disagree?

Do you even know why those who believe God does the keeping of those whom He saves believe such? All you have done is give arguments why you believe the word of God teaches the saved can become lost. If you do not understand why one believes according to God's word OSAS how can you instruct them?

This thread is on sanctification. If the new birth must precede sactification, then I would concede the saved can become lost, ". . . Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? . . ." -- Hebrews 10:29.

What explicit Biblical evidence is there that one must be saved prior to being sanctified? It is my understanding according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 and 1 Peter 1:2 that sanctificatino precedes salvation. Hebrews 10:29 also seems to bear this out.

 

[mailmandan]

Well I am sorry for you Dan, you should receive the posts of correction in the Spirit they were given, in love and only sent as a help to you. Ignoring Gods Word and name calling does not really help your position brother as it is Gods Word not mine that has been shared with you. We either have scripture for our position or we do not. It seems dear brother you do not. Perhaps this will be something for you to pray about. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear. Let me know when your finished with the name calling and you want to discuss the scriptures. I pray and wish you only the best and all love in the Lord.

No need to be sorry for me and you have no correction or truth to offer me in love. There is nothing I could say that would help my position IN YOUR EYES. I am sorry for you because you have been deceived by a cult. Let me know when you are ready to repent and believe the gospel. Then we can discuss the Scriptures. Until then, we will just continue to waste our time in an endless circle of disagreement. This is certainly something for you to pray about and I will continue to pray for you.

 

[3rdAngel]

No need to be sorry for me and you have no correction or truth to offer me in love. There is nothing I could say that would help my position IN YOUR EYES. I am sorry for you because you have been deceived by a cult. Let me know when you are ready to repent and believe the gospel. Then we can discuss the Scriptures. Until then, we will just continue to waste our time in an endless circle of disagreement. This is certainly something for you to pray about and I will continue to pray for you.

You are free to believe and do as you wish brother, we all answer only to God come judgment day. I have only shared God's Word with you but you do not believe it because you work on the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment that is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and seek to justify your work over God's Word. According to God's WORD (not mine) if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11 when we have been given a knowledge of the truth *HEBREWS 10:26-39 we stand guilty before God of sin. All those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter the kingdom of Heaven because they count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of Grace *HEBREWS 10:29. I do not judge you. God's Word will be our judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ Brother, I believe and follow God's WORD and God is my teacher and guide according to the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13.

All I hear in your post here are your words denying God's WORD when you have been shown why you are in error from God's Word alone by leaving out the context from your interpretation of the scriptures that have been shown side by side. All the scriptures provided showing the context you leave out in post # 17 shows proof as to why your claims are in error and they are God's Words not mine.

In response you deny God's Word with your words which are not God's but yours. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4 and if I have only told you the truth than why do you not believe it? These posts are only provided in love and as a help to you. Receive them in the Spirit in which they are given (love). Ignoring God's WORD in order to follow the false gospel of "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" does not make God's Word dissappear.

God's Sheep hear His Voice and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow *JOHN 10:26-27

I believe and follow God's Word how about you? What is it in post # 17 that is not true and if it is true than why do you not believe it when it is God's Word and not my words denying Gods?

As well as the scriptures provided in post # 17 above that show why you are in error, there is a more detailed scripture study on HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 in the linked post below for anyone interested...

WARNINGS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH (HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39)

Hope this helps

Your response...

Again, you make a false acusation, ". . . your words denying God's WORD . . . .

Nope, brother there has been no false accusations my side as everything that has been posted has been proven through God's Word in post # 17 linked here and also further scripture support here...
WARNINGS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH (HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39). Yours and your friends response was simply to ignore the scriptures provided and only shared in love that show why you are in error. These are God's Word not my words. If I have only told you the truth why do you not believe it?

Have you not read, that the accuser of our brethren will be cast down, who accused them before our God day and night, Revelation 12:10, ". . . the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. . . ."?

I believe and follow God's Word. I do not judge you. I have only shared God's Word with you in love and as a help to you as it shows why your in error and following a false teaching of "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" which is not biblical and a doctrine of devils. I am only doing my duty of love to you as my fellow man as shown from the scriptures "Brothers, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted." GALATIANS 6:1 by sharing the scriptures with you; "all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness * 2 TIMOTHY 3:16. These are God's Words not mine that I share with you, but you do not believe them.

The Apostle Paul wrote the Corinthians church, ". . . Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 1:10. Well? Are we going to play Satans game and viciously fight each other or are we going to try to find common ground to deal with where we might find we disagree? Do you even know why those who believe God does the keeping of those whom He saves believe such? All you have done is give arguments why you believe the word of God teaches the saved can become lost. If you do not understand why one believes according to God's word OSAS how can you instruct them?

God's people only unity in the truth not in something that is not truth. That is why JESUS is calling his people out wherever they may be *JOHN 10:16; REVELATION 18:1-5 from following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9 to worship him in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who whorship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 4:23-24. JESUS says I have no come to send peace but a sword (the Word) *MATTHEW 10:34-36 and in the last days there will be many false teachers that if it were possible they should deceive God's very elect *MATTHEW 24:24. WE can only know God's Word as we seek him for it *JOHN 14:26; 16:13; 7:17; 17:17; 8:31-36; HEBREWS 8:11. God is calling us back to him and to the pure Word of God *1 JOHN 2:27; REVELATION 18:1-5. Those who hear his Voice (the Word) follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow *JOHN 10:26-27.

This thread is on sanctification. If the new birth must precede sactification, then I would concede the saved can become lost, ". . . Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? . . ." -- Hebrews 10:29.

The NEW BIRTH does precede sanctification. That is why it is called "the new birth" it is the very beggining of our walk with Christ. Sanctification is the work of a lifetime of growing in Grace and the knowledge of God's Word to become more and more like JESUS. *JOHN 3:3-8; 1 JOHN 3:6-10; 2 PETER 3:18; EPHESIANS 4:15; 1 CORINTHIANS 1:30; 1 THESSALONIANS 4:3; 4:4; 1 PETER 1:2

What explicit Biblical evidence is there that one must be saved prior to being sanctified? It is my understanding according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 and 1 Peter 1:2 that sanctificatino precedes salvation. Hebrews 10:29 also seems to bear this out.

There is no such thing as once saved always saved or saved. The term is unbiblical. We are being saved by God's Grace through faith *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. We are in a saved state before God as we "BELIEVE and FOLLOW" God's Word always in the "present tense" application of faith to believing *JOHN 3:15-21; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; JOHN 8:31-36; JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

 

[Alofa Atu]

...

For you 'dan' (Genesis 49:17)

Judas - Richard Stenbakken

 

[NetChaplain]

SANCTIFICATION: Being made holy. The first sanctification takes place at baptism, by which the love of God is infused by the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5). Newly baptized persons are holy because the Holy Trinity begins to dwell in their souls and they are pleasing to God. The second sanctification is a lifelong process in which a person already in the state of grace grows in the possession of grace and in likeness to God by faithfully corresponding with divine inspirations. The third sanctification takes place when a person enters heaven and becomes totally and irrevocably united with God in the beatific vision. (Etym. Latin sanctificare, to make holy.) Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J., Modern Catholic Dictionary.​

Hi, and appreciate your replies! Myself, I believe sanctification does not admit in degrees and is fully imputed upon rebirth. Same for holiness, righteousness and justification, for at the point of salvation we are "given all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him" (2Pe 1:3).

Blessings!​

 

[JoeT]

Hi, and appreciate your replies! Myself, I believe sanctification does not admit in degrees and is fully imputed upon rebirth. Same for holiness, righteousness and justification, for at the point of salvation we are "given all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him" (2Pe 1:3).

Blessings!​

I should hope I gave the impression that sanctification came first, it comes complete and efficaciously. This is a regeneration of the heart to God's love, agape, from whence justice is formed, the honor we rightly owe God. Justification then becomes the process of going from unjust to just, perfectly. This type of justification only requires the love of God seeks a selfless love only to share with God. Hence the will remains free.

You would have justification first, perfect in every way, thence sanctification is poured into the heart of men. This forms a covering over sin, essentially removing the offense from the debt roster, however the heart remains unchanged only less burdened.If justification were a alien rule over man then there is no free will.


JoeT

 

[NetChaplain]

I should hope I gave the impression that sanctification came first, it comes complete and efficaciously.

I believe everything that is godly is given at the point of faith (2Pe 1:3), which will manifest itself via the Spirit's "conforming to the image of Christ" in our walk (lRom 8:29). It's the progressive walk of the believers which manifests all that they already is in the Lord Jesus.

This is a regeneration of the heart to God's love, agape,

Amen, and agree here! Myself, I believe the initial creation of our spirit can be considered "generated" because of the primary definition of the word, which means to bring into existence or to originate something. So, God generates the spirit to establish existence, then "through faith" His Spirit makes is over, or regenerates it; "regeneration by the Holy Spirit," which is a remake of our spirit due to the implanting of a new nature from Christ (Col 3:10). It's all contained in our new nature from Christ, thus as the initial making of the spirit is new, the second making of our spirit is renewed or new again, not a remake of the old nature but by an additional nature supplanted which is new (regenerate; renew - Tit 3:5).

To me, spirit renewal and regeneration is more related to God imparting the nature from Christ (new nature) which results in a new never-existed-before type of spirit being (each being unique and only one of you). The new nature makes the spirit new in everything godly (Eph 1:3; 2Pe 1:3).

 

[JoeT]

I believe everything that is godly is given at the point of faith (2Pe 1:3), which will manifest itself via the Spirit's "conforming to the image of Christ" in our walk (lRom 8:29). It's the progressive walk of the believers which manifests all that they already is in the Lord Jesus.

I would not think that faith is complete in this life. We know that it doesn't come easily to some, but rather a children in small doses, example, 1 Corinthians 3:2; Hebrews 5:13]. Faith is informed by charity and hope. We call the quality of strength (or weakness) a virtue so long as it exists in the rectitude of God's will. The virtues of faith and hope are informed by charity, hence it is the greatest of virtues. [1 Corinthians 13:13], without the a certain agapa in the heart, the soul is insufficiently virtuous and the mind turns away from the rectitude of the will. Cf. Luke 10:27; [URL='http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=48&ch=12&l=30#x']Mark 12:30; [URL='http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=22&l=37#x']Matthew 22:37 [URL='http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=22&ch=19&l=8#x']Proverbs 19:8[/URL][/URL][/URL]

Amen, and agree here! Myself, I believe the initial creation of our spirit can be considered "generated" because of the primary definition of the word, which means to bring into existence or to originate something. So, God generates the spirit to establish existence, then "through faith" His Spirit makes is over, or regenerates it; "regeneration by the Holy Spirit," which is a remake of our spirit due to the implanting of a new nature from Christ (Col 3:10). It's all contained in our new nature from Christ, thus as the initial making of the spirit is new, the second making of our spirit is renewed or new again, not a remake of the old nature but by an additional nature supplanted which is new (regenerate; renew - Tit 3:5).

To me, spirit renewal and regeneration is more related to God imparting the nature from Christ (new nature) which results in a new never-existed-before type of spirit being (each being unique and only one of you). The new nature makes the spirit new in everything godly (Eph 1:3; 2Pe 1:3).

The original justice accompanying Adam's creation and unimpeded is a moral quality or habit that perfectly joins the will to an enlightened mind to understanding of the will of God. Inexplicably joined to the other cardinal virtues, justice gives the rights to honorable prudence, temperance, and fortitude in moral acts. Prior to his original act of rebellion, Adam 'abides' in God. This abiding is much as we are invited to abide in Christ partaking in the Eucharist. [Cf. John 6:57]. Christ renews us. The punishment of original sin is the deprivation of Adam's original justice to our patriarch. All men inherit this one man’s sin being a part of the family of Homo sapiens. Prior to the fall, Adam stood before God as a just man. The original man was created with a soul that perfectly joined to the intellect and perfectly united with the will of God, overflowing with the knowledge of truth; the intellect functioned in the light of God's will disciplining the lower appetites through reason alone. However, because of his unjust act likely born in philosophies such as Nominalism, relativism and rationalism we now bear the guilt and punishment for the sin of this one man's act. Baptism then becomes the restoration, or regeneration of our birth, mankind's birth, with a new virtue of justice that permits us, at least in part to rectify the soul to the will of God.

JoeT