Saved after the Rapture????

I have heard from at least three Messanic Jews
that when the Last Gentile is saved, then
the pretribulation rapture/resurrection
will take place. If so, there will be no
gentile salavation after the rapture of those
who could have if they would have been
saved before the rapture.

The whole plan for the Tribulation time is
to save a maximum number of Jews, not Gentiles.
I do not consider it safe to bet your
eternal soul on a post-rapture chance
at salvation.

Another theory is that gentiles will be
saved after the pretribulation rapture/resurrection
BUT the only way to prove you are really
on the Lord's side is to get your head
chopped off. All gentile tribulation period
saints will be stillborn: the first time
they confess Jesus as Lord will be their
last confession while alive.

 

2Th 2:11- 12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I interpret this to say that --Those who have heard the truth (Gospel) and consciously rejected it because of necessitating giving up of the "pleasure in unrighteousness", will be led to believe the lie of the anti-christ.

In other words, those who may have heard, but just never acted on the invitation,(not the above pleasure lovers) and those who (at this point in time) have never heard, will be able to accept Jesus as savior.

The italicized portion above, is strictly a guesstimate, but based on the mercies of God.

I have heard preachers state that once the rapture occurs, NNE that has EVER heard the Gospel can then be saved; only those who will hear it for the FIRST time after the rapture are afforded this opportunity.

 

My thinking along this line is that "these people" have heard, perhaps even considered, but have NOT conciously & purposefully rejected Christ as Savior. Could be someone who's been trying to grasp that this IS TRUTH, and is in the process of making the conversion from unbeliever to believer.

In other words, they are not responding like so many resulting from 9-11 that suddenly got religious and soon's all the excitement was over they reverted to their "Ho-Hum" feelings toward religion.

I'm sure there will be many who will "CALL ON GOD" then, but it will be the cry for the immediate danger, not a true calling on Christ for salvation.

As for "sight vs faith", the conversion MAY be from sight, but if it is a true conversion then that sight just led to faith.

I'm having a hard time putting into words what I want to say, but hopefully you can get my basic premise.

 

quote:
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They would be acting more on sight than faith. So can this be?
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Consider the early believers of Acts 2. Many of THEM saw the things that happened in Jerusalem concerning Jesus. Upon the preaching of Peter, they believed, were baptized and were saved that day. IOW, they believed by sight? or by faith?
I would submit that it is both. Therefore, it is not entirely out of the realm of possibility for the same to be true of Trib saints.
Scenario;
Jesus goes about preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God. He sends out diciples and apostles 2 x 2 to do the same. Many believe, while SOME do not. Then the Cross. Those that did NOT believe now hear Peter preach. They say to themselves (HMMM! So that's IT !) they believe and get saved.
Could the same thing also happen AFTER the rapture? I think so. It might be very DIFFICULT for some to believe after the "strong delusion" occurs, but not impossible.
But why even speculate? Does this not lead to carelessness in our witness? If we stick to the admonition that NOW is the accepted time, then we should not be so concerned about THEN, should we?

In HIS service;
Jim

 

II Thess 2:8-12 speaks of this present age, God allows people to believed the lies and deceived, because they not love the truth, and hate to hear truth. Right now, many are heart hardeneth or stone. Also, they are not God's elect. II Thess 2:8-12 is also refer with Matt. 24:24 & Rev. 13:13 as the Antichrist will use miracles to deceived the world. This will be happen first before rapture.

There is NO another chance to become saved after rapture.

Matt. 25:1-12 telling us, the parable of ten virgins, five with oil represent wise and right with the LOrd, are watch and ready, five without oil represent fool and not right with God, not watch and ready, remain in wicked. When their Bridgegroom comes, and five wise virgins enter the door, and it shut. Five fool virgins ran to the door and knock beg to enter. Bridgeroom says to them, not know them. That means, there will be too late for them to have opporunity time to repent of salvation. Same with flood. God gave them of plenty time of opporunity to repentence for 120 years. No one repent. So, God shut the door of Ark, and flood pour upon all people. I am sure, many people might ran to the Ark and knock beg to enter it. It was too late for them to enter. All were killed. So, rapture shall be LIKE AS THIEF IN THE NIGHT apply to all wicked people, not believers.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

I believe that those that reject Christ on this side of the rapture, will not have a chance on the other side. In fact, I believe that an entire generation will die off BETWEEN the rapture and the tribulation. There will be those that are saved during the tribulation (starting with the Jews - there is no debate on this...), but I don't think that God will offer a second chance -- and like the Israelites wandering in the wilderness for 40 years, the left behind folks will be wandering.

 

Recall that people who think the Second Advent
of Jesus ends the world - and the rapture
is the same 12 hour period of daylight "day" --
these folk are going to say you cannot be
saved after the Rapture. There is no time
after the Rapture in which to be saved, the
rapture starts eternity.

Now, folks who believe the Bible and see
a whole family of events after the
Second-Advent/rapture -- it is significant what
they believe about the conditions after
the rapture.

 

JH,

I fully agree with you, but if we confuse Israel and the church, we confuse that as well. This has been abundantly evident on many other threads.

 

Hi Jeremiah;

I agree they aren't the same event. Those who feel that no Gentiles will be saved after the rapture are shooting evanglism in the foot before it even gets off to a running start. Those 144000 Jews I believe will be here to evanglize all who haven't taken the mark, or worshiped the beast and the anti christ.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

I am still wondering what the pre-tribbers have to say about the resurrection in I Kings chapter 17?

As a post-trib, pre-millennium believer, I fail to see why one cannot go over to Jerusalem, meet Jesus, and be saved during the millennium. One of the purposes of the millennium is to prove the total depravity of man in that even with Satan locked up by the angel for 1,000 years just after the first resurrection of the saved, men will still reject Jesus, whom they then will know beyond any shadow of doubt is God.

The essential problem with the pre-tribulation theory is that, like evolution theory, it has no verse of Scripture to support it.

 

Are you referring to Math 24 as after the rapture at the end of the trib, or are you referring to Math 24 as occurring in the first century?

Can you please explain what exactly do you feel Math 24 is about?

 

Church mouse guy: "As a post-trib, pre-millennium
believer, I fail to see why one cannot go
over to Jerusalem, meet Jesus, and be
saved during the millennium. "

Amen, Brother Church mouse guy -- Preach it!
YOu make an "A" on the subject matter of this
Topic.

Church mouse guy: "The essential problem with the pre-tribulation theory is that, like evolution theory, it has no verse of Scripture to support it."

You make "F" on stuff that is not the subject
matter of this Topic.

--Ed,
your pretrib, pre-mill co-worker in Christ

 

Exactly.

 

Are you referring to Math 24 as after the rapture at the end of the trib, or are you referring to Math 24 as occurring in the first century?

Can you please explain what exactly do you feel Math 24 is about? </font>[/QUOTE]I already answered that question when I said that I believed in the post-tribulation, pre-millennium Second Coming, or Rapture of Jesus, didn't I? Jesus has not returned yet. We have not seen the Antichrist yet.

As you know, in Matthew 24, which you cite, in verse 29, Jesus says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days..." in a clear reference to Matthew 24:21 where Jesus says, "For then shall be great tribulation...."

As everyone knows, Jesus said that the Second Advent, Second Coming, and Rapture would be after the Great Tribulation, didn't He?

While Ed gave me an F for saying that not one verse supports the pre-tribbers, he neglected to teach me just (not a whole page full), just one verse that supported pre-trib--or even one verse that supports evolution. The bank account of Tim LeHaye is not evidence that demands a verdict.

 

Church mouse guy: "While Ed gave me an F for saying that not one verse supports the pre-tribbers, he neglected to teach me just (not a whole page full), just one verse that supported pre-trib--or even one verse that supports evolution."

first, phase a: forget about evolution, evolution is NOT a bible concept.

first, phase b: Look again at what you said:
you said i had a whole page of bible proofs of
the pretribulation rapture/resurrection but you
want one and only one verse. Sorry, God did NOT
choose to put a simple pretribulation rapture/resurrection
into the Bible. Take the matter up with Him.
I think He wanted us to dig for it.
Nevertheless, i'll show you later in this
post.

Without proof i shall say:
It is not a good thing for Church mouse guy the POT
to tell God the Potter that He messed up His Holy
Written Word: the Bible.

Here is the pretribulation rapture/resurrection
in ONE WORD:

Maranatha!

1 Corinthians 16:22 (KJV1769)
If anyone does not love the Lord,
a curse be on him. Maranatha!

Here is the contrasting pretribulation rapture/resurrection
event and the Coming of Jesus to destroy the
antichrist and set up a physical Millinnial Kingdom
on earth -- in one verse. It happens twice.

Titus 2:13 (HCSB):
while we wait for the blessed hope
and
the appearing of the glory of our
great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

(notice here the pretribulation rapture is mentioned first)

Now concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and
our being gathered to Him:
we ask you, brothers,

(notice here the pretribulation rapture is mentioned second)

 

Revelation is abundantly clear that many will be saved out of the Tribulation.

Rev 7:9 “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 ¶ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Kinda hard to deny the clear words of the text, unless you are a preterist that is, for whom it has become routine.

 

Ed, how does Titus 2:13 establish the Second Advent as before the tribulation?

Jesus said in Matthew 24 that we would see the Antichrist. However, we are going to be kept from the wrath of God just as the Jews were kept during the Passover while the Egyptians received the wrath of God. The kept church goes from tribulation to glory!