Saved in childbearing... from what?

James,

Thanks for picking this subject up again.

Hmmm, are you saying a woman will survive giving birth if she raises the child she gives birth to in a Godly manner?

Les

 

I don't think John is meaning an individual lady there. That is his way of referring to the church, either a local church he is writing to or the church at large.

Les

 

My point was that the passage wasn't relevant to physically giving birth.

Les

 

1. James, this is a difficult verse at best that have troubled NT scholars, commentators and theologians for years.

2. "But she will be delivered through childbearing, if they continue in faith and love and holiness with self-control" (tcg).

a. "She will be" is singular, but "if they" is plural, but it is still a reference to woman/women. This is not unusual in Greek. I know of know commentator who takes your view and would argue from the language for that.

b. The children are not being addressed; womanhood is.

3. There're some four leading views on this passage among commentators, et al. At this time, I care not to propose a fifth.

 

1. Well, that is good if you got it figured out. I sure haven't.

2. First, this is no pronoun mangling.

a. "She will be saved" is one word in the Greek and it is a future passive verb.

b. Acts 16:31, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you and your household shall be saved."

c. "Believe" is singular and "shall be saved," which is applied to both the jailer and his household is singular. I hope that answers your question.

3. A person should not avoid the use of the biblical languages, but should learn how they work.

 

1. James, I wish I can help you some more. All I call tell from my experience of NT Greek, that an English grammar would not work.

2. For example Pau says, "Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting – which are not proper – but rather giving thanks" (Eph. 5:4). "Vulgar speech, foolish talk or coarse jesting" are all feminine words," yet the relative pronoun "which" is neuter, not feminine. One would have thought that the relative pronoun should have been feminine too.

3. Here's an English example: Let him or her know that they not be welcome without a Greek grammar. We speak and write like this.

 

If you notice all of my postings, I only referring to Greek when necessary.

 

1. Find me 10 translation of the Bible that support you view.

2. I was just illustration how the language works.

3. I already gave you an example of two nouns separated by "and," taking a singular Greek verb instead of a plural Greek verb in Acts 16:31.

4. So your point about the Greeks knowing the difference between singular and plural doesn't add up.

5. James, I try to keep it real. With that in mind, I'm not going to discuss how the Greek works with someone who doesn't know how it works, but who thinks he knows how it works.

 

1. You have made your point. Forgiving me for not taken into account the incorrect nature of "Let him or her know that they must return the books they borrowed."

2. Maybe I was wrong for using this faulty example. At any rate, the verdict is still out on this structure.

 

There are a number of interpretations. Here's the right one:

The context is teaching in the church, from which women are forbidden but rather are to keep silence. Which would raise the question, If women can't teach, then how can they contribute to the sin problem they helped to caused through being deceived? By bearing children and raising them in a godly way.

 

Where does the Bible say that women can't teach?
I have pastored for many years and have yet to find a church that does not use women to teach women's classes and children's classes.