Scholar Against Women Pastors

[Rev. Lowery]

Um...Rev Lowery...I think you mean sexist.

Unless you think a woman preacher is the sexiest thing you've ever seen.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Oh, now THAT was a funny misspell. I don't care who you are.

Well that just has to be the funnest thing i think i have ever typed lol

 

[Amy.G]

Well that just has to be the funnest thing i think i have ever typed lol

Funny indeed! That wins the award!:laugh:

 

[tragic_pizza]

From "In The Line Of Duty" (emphasis added):

Cobler, 40, was not a member of Snow Creek Christian Church, but he knew of Copin and, on at least one occasion, had questioned whether she, as a woman, should be a church minister, according to his sister Cindy Cobler.

A couple of months ago, Cindy Cobler said, her brother called her from the Franklin County Jail, where he was serving about four months for a reckless driving conviction.

She said he told her that he was "trying to read the Bible" but was confused. He said someone had sent him some religious literature and had been telling him that it was wrong for a woman to be a preacher.
But he pointed out that the minister of Snow Creek Christian Church was a woman and that plenty of good people go to church there, Cindy Cobler recalled.

Franklin County sheriff's Lt. David Cundiff said Tuesday, "I had heard that he said he didn't think a woman's place should be a preacher."

Charles Cobler got out of jail March 14, and his sister said he had been undergoing drug counseling through Central Baptist Church in Axton.

Cindy and Charles Cobler's brother, Wayne Cobler, said Tuesday that he directs a program through the church that is designed to help people with addiction, but he said the program's participants are kept confidential.

Charles Cobler was not a member of Central Baptist Church, his brother said.

He went with a relative to the Palm Sunday service at Snow Creek on the evening of April 1. He was there when Copin gave her final sermon.

Cobler is accused of stealing fuel two days later, on April 3, from a gas station in Henry County on Virginia 890, the road on which Copin lived.

Please, someone, explain to me how this idea that women are not worthy to occupy a pulpit -- and I especially want to hear from you Hyle-ites -- is not a death-dealing, Satanic doctrine.

 

[James_Newman]

Do you think that fundamental baptists advocate murduring lady pastors? Perhaps you could apply the same logic that the homosexuals use to justify their behavior. Since some people perpetrate violence on homosexuals, we should charge people who speak against homosexuality with hate crimes because they caused those people to commit murders, right? So we should start charging fundamental preachers who say women should not be pastors with hate crimes because they caused this man to go out and commit murder also? You are a piece of work, TP.

 

[Shiloh]

Please, someone, explain to me how this idea that women are not worthy to occupy a pulpit -- and I especially want to hear from you Hyle-ites -- is not a death-dealing, Satanic doctrine.


I'm not a "Hyle-ites" what ever that is, but I can answer your question. The Bible does not say a woman is not worthy to occupy a pulpit. The Bible says 1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; and 1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[tragic_pizza]

Jimmy, point out where I ever said that preachers should be charged with hate crimes. One place, ONE, or admit that you are a liar.

I am saying tat we Christians should take care what we hear, what we accept, and who we decide to follow as if they are Christ.

Now, post that one place, or apologize.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Please, someone, explain to me how this idea that women are not worthy to occupy a pulpit -- and I especially want to hear from you Hyle-ites -- is not a death-dealing, Satanic doctrine.


I'm not a "Hyle-ites" what ever that is, but I can answer your question. The Bible does not say a woman is not worthy to occupy a pulpit. The Bible says 1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; and 1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Why is this so hard to understand?

You tell me why we can accept that the social and societal mores of those who wrote the Scriptures was different enough that, today, slavery is unacceptable, yet those same patriarchal mores don't figure in to the discussion about women.

Please.

 

[James_Newman]

Jimmy, point out where I ever said that preachers should be charged with hate crimes. One place, ONE, or admit that you are a liar.

I am saying tat we Christians should take care what we hear, what we accept, and who we decide to follow as if they are Christ.

Now, post that one place, or apologize.

I never said you said that, read what I said again. Posting that article and then attempting to connect fundamental bible doctrines with that murderer was a page right out of the homosexual agenda playbook. You are trying to lay the blame for that woman's murder on those who would speak against women pastors. Death-dealing doctrine indeed.

 

[Shiloh]

Please.....

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[tragic_pizza]

I never said you said that, read what I said again. Posting that article and then attempting to connect fundamental bible doctrines with that murderer was a page right out of the homosexual agenda playbook. You are trying to lay the blame for that woman's murder on those who would speak against women pastors. Death-dealing doctrine indeed.

You said I was advocating for hate crime charges against preachers. You lied.

I believe, fully and unashamedly, that the preaching of people like Hyles is a contributing factor in the death of my friend.

You have yet to show me otherwise, but have lied about me openly.

Now, I'm waiting on that one place where I said what you have accused me of. Or an apology.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Please.....

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Indeed.

"Preaching of the cross" applies to this in precisely what way?

 

[James_Newman]

You said I was advocating for hate crime charges against preachers. You lied.

I said you COULD. You can't read.

I believe, fully and unashamedly, that the preaching of people like Hyles is a contributing factor in the death of my friend.

Even if it was, that doesn't prove or disprove the doctrine. But it does make a very emotional argument for people who are easily swayed by emotions.

You have yet to show me otherwise, but have lied about me openly.

Now, I'm waiting on that one place where I said what you have accused me of. Or an apology.

You are going to be waiting a long time.

 

[tragic_pizza]

I said you COULD. You can't read.

So we should start charging fundamental preachers who say women should not be pastors with hate crimes because they caused this man to go out and commit murder also? You are a piece of work, TP.

Even if it was, that doesn't prove or disprove the doctrine. But it does make a very emotional argument for people who are easily swayed by emotions.

It makes a very compelling argument against those who theink that having a [offensive language removed] makes one superior in God's eyes.

You are going to be waiting a long time.

Perish forbid a Fundamentalist ever admits error, huh?

 

[James_Newman]

I think the problem is people who think not getting to be pastors makes them inferior.

 

[Rev. Lowery]

You tell me why we can accept that the social and societal mores of those who wrote the Scriptures was different enough that, today, slavery is unacceptable, yet those same patriarchal mores don't figure in to the discussion about women.

Please.

Just because socially our views have changed it does not change the fact of.....

Ephesians 5:22-33
22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

This ties directly in with.......

1 Timothy 2:8-13

8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And...........

Genesis 2:18-30 (King James Version)

18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

And...................

1 Corinthians 11:3

3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

And...................

1 Corinthians 11:8-12

8For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.


Shall I go on or is the point made?

 

[tragic_pizza]

Just because socially our views have changed it does not change the fact of.....

Ephesians 5:22-33
22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

This ties directly in with.......

1 Timothy 2:8-13

8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And...........

Genesis 2:18-30 (King James Version)

18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

And...................

1 Corinthians 11:3

3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

And...................

1 Corinthians 11:8-12

8For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.


Shall I go on or is the point made?

You can explain why Paul allowed Phoebe to pastor a church (Romans 16:1-2). If all of the above must aply to women being ordained as pastors, then either Paul is a hypocrite or you are wrong.

 

[Rufus_1611]

You can explain why Paul allowed Phoebe to pastor a church (Romans 16:1-2). If all of the above must aply to women being ordained as pastors, then either Paul is a hypocrite or you are wrong.

Phebe was not a pastor of a church, she is described as being a servant of the church.

"I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also." - Romans 16:1-2​

I am aware the Greek word means deaconess and it was quite probable that she ministered to the poor sisters of the church, but never to teach the men in a pastoral capacity.

As to the other, I am sorry for the loss of your friend and I pray for your healing as well as for the others affected by this tragedy. Please be aware, however, that you are adding to the pain of this event by connecting her death to those who preach in favor of the Bible and thus, preach against women pastors. Just because I rail against sodomy does not make me responsible for the Matthew Shepherd killers and just because I rail against female pastors does not make me responsible for the Copin killer. Christians do not promote violent behavior against those with bad doctrines or behaviors and no Christian advocated for this malfeasant to rob and murder this lady because she was holding an office that the Bible states she ought not hold. Violence against this individual would run contrary to fundamental teachings of the Bible and thus, could not be held by a fundamentalist.

 

[thomas15]

I think the problem is people who think not getting to be pastors makes them inferior.

Or Deacons, you forgot Deacons.

 

[Shiloh]

The problem is so many here just don't believe the Bible!

 

[go2church]

The problem is that there are too many people who want to tell other people what they Holy Spirit can and cannot do.