serving w/o membership

[gekko]

alright - i've got two situations here. simply because they are actually happening right now. let me explain.

the church that i fellowship regularly (hillcrest baptist church) - i'm able to help out with the youth (although i'm not too sure about that now...) - i'm able to help out with the lunch ministry.

but anything else - i'm not able to be in any leadership position. because i'm not a member of that church. i'm not able to even play guitar in the worship. not able to lead a bible study. not able to lead in sunday school. not able to be in any position of leadership in that church. because i'm not a member.
..........

now for the other church. i don't regularly attend on sunday morning service. but i am part of the young adults group - we do bible study's mostly. i'm even going to be leading the worship for the young adults on sunday nights.

the youth pastor has asked me to be part of the sunday morning worship - to play guitar. even been asked to help out with the music at the youth on wednesday nights.

but i'm not a member at that church. but the youth pastor sees that i am a christian that has a firm foundation and still growing. and that's the criteria that he goes by.

..........

now which do you agree with?
which do you support:
-Leadership w/ membership
-Leadership w/o membership

(currently i'm not a member of any church)

God bless!

 

[canadyjd]

Why have you not joined one of the churches?

peace to youraying:

 

[StefanM]

I do not believe that a non-member should be in a position of leadership. There is a lack of accountability there, plus it may send the wrong message.

However, I would not consider playing the guitar a position of leadership.

 

[gekko]

Why have you not joined one of the churches?

don't know which church to join... that's the main reason.

second reason - if i join now - i'll only be here for a month - then i'm gone for the next 8months (summer camp and road trip) - so i can't really serve during that.

thirdly - i don't like the label of "membership" -- i agree with what comes with that -- a covenant between me and the church and the church and me. i agree with that but i don't like the term "membership" - just my own convictions is all.
.........

sorry StefanM - i should have explained it a little more.

in the first church (hillcrest baptist church) - i would be leading worship - as in a "worship leader"

in the second one - i'd also be a worship leader and also a leader of the youth on the wednesday nights.

God bless!

 

[donnA]

No service without membership, as was said theres no accountability.

 

[annsni]

I'm with the others on this one. Non members in our church can assist in worship and Sunday School but they can't lead anything or be in a higher jobs unless they're under the umbrella of the church. Just logical thinking, IMO. While you may be gone for the next 8 months, I think that being a member of a church is still important. You will have a say - even from a distance - on things that members vote on and I think there is a covering in being in a church.

 

[gekko]

No service without membership, as was said theres no accountability.

i don't understand how there is no accountability if there's no membership...

i'm accountable to people in the church i regularly fellowship at - but i'm not a member. i'm accountable to both the youth pastor and pastor.

well - there's accountability between us. but i'm not a member. is it not real accountability then?

 

[StefanM]

One cannot exercise church discipline over a non-member.

 

[gekko]

One cannot exercise church discipline over a non-member.

i still cannot see the reason why not?

While you may be gone for the next 8 months, I think that being a member of a church is still important.

true. it is important to be accountable with a church from that distance.

 

[billwald]

Are you willing to accept discipline from both churches?

 

[drfuss]

gekko writes:

"i still cannot see the reason why not?"

drfuss: We started attending our SBC church about 14 years ago and it took us about a year to figure out why we would answer an appeal for workers and never get contacted. It was because we had not joined church. After joining the church, we could do things. The Baptist, in general, have a tradition that unless you are a member, you cannot be a part of the church.

IMHO, the Baptist really have a flawed policy concerning membership. On the one hand, you must be a member to do anything because of the need for accountability as you have been told.

On the other hand, most Baptist churches do not update their membership rolls. So many Baptist members can stop attending church and there is no accountability, and they are still considered members in good standing. In the SBC, it is estimated that only about 30-40% of the 17+ million members attend church.

Accountability is important when becoming a member, but after you are a member, it has little meaning. Of course, the Baptist contradict themselves on the membership issue, but it has been this way for so long that they don't see the contradiction. I have questioned this over the past 14 years, but this is the way it is in Baptist churches, so you might as well get used to it.

 

[thomas15]

If, in a couple of weeks, you are not going to be around for the next 8 or 9 months then why are you asking this question?

My un-educated opinion: Leading Worship and Bible studies are not the same as performing music for the meeting. We wouldn't expect a gospel group on tour to become members before they perform at our service. Leading Bible studies, that is different.

I'm not a member of a church myself, but for different reasons than you. I attend a church worship service and will in the future become a member if things work out, if they don't then I will look elseware. I would not be happy if the church I attend as a non-member asked me to lead a Bible study as I feel that a certain amount of commitment (ie:membership) should be required to do this. I wouldn't feel the same way if asked to perform music but the music leaders know I play an instrument and I hope they wait until I make a commitment to the church before extending to me all kinds of responsibility and privledges.

I find your comment about "membership" mildly troubling but I mean no offense by this.

 

[donnA]

i don't understand how there is no accountability if there's no membership...

i'm accountable to people in the church i regularly fellowship at - but i'm not a member. i'm accountable to both the youth pastor and pastor.

well - there's accountability between us. but i'm not a member. is it not real accountability then?

You put yourself in a postion of accountability, others may not. On the other hand, is discipline were called for, it could not be given to a non member, they could just leave, no accountability, simply becasue of non membership.

 

[gekko]

Are you willing to accept discipline from both churches?

oh yes. of course.

 

[donnA]

how long have you been visiting these 2 churches and up until now have never chosen one.

 

[gekko]

well - donnA. the people i've talked to from both churches - we've agreed on the whole accountability deal.

as for discipline? well i'll be stayin. won't be leavin.

EDIT:

how long have you been visiting these 2 churches and up until now have never chosen one.

umm. hillcrest for a year and a half - the other one for a few months.

 

[Jim1999]

IN a small village church where I pastored, we had group of Missouri Synod Lutheran families, twice-born and evangelical, with no church within 100 miles. They attended this church faithfully, tithed and participated in all functions..including choir, Sunday School (using Baptist lessons), giving testimonies. If they needed discipline or instruction, I wouldn't hestitate to approach them, member or no. Bless the Lord for their faithfulness..So we differed on baptism.

Further, all my ministry, whilst married, my wife attended my churches, participated where she was asked, and at the request of the membership and deacons, she partook of the Lord's Supper.......all while maintaining her membership in the Anglican Church.

I see no problem with a non-member, twice-born and evangelical engaging in the Lord's work. I am the pastor of the whole assembly. I do not divide them off to, Saved sit here, and all others sit there.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[gekko]

If, in a couple of weeks, you are not going to be around for the next 8 or 9 months then why are you asking this question?

cause i'm just wonderin what you're opinion is on the subject...

should a non-member beable to serve in the church (i.e. lead worship, sunday school, youth)

OR

should a non-member not beable to serve in the church (i.e. lead worship, sunday school, youth) etc.

 

[gekko]

I find your comment about "membership" mildly troubling but I mean no offense by this.

haha. well i agree with everything that comes with "membership" - i just don't like the label. sounds too political i guess. haha

 

[SBCPreacher]

In our church, you have to be a member to take a leadership position: SS Teacher, Age group leader, missions leader, etc. Non-members can can assist with some activities and sing in the choir, but they can't hold a leadership position. We want our leaders to be committed enough to our church to be a member. We also don't put new members in leadership positions either - we want to get to know them and they get to know us.