Seventh-Day Adventism

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BR: What does it gain those who bash SDAs to use that kind of straw man?

HP: To some it must serve as a diversion tactic to avoid questions concerning their own beliefs on other threads that they seem to be avoiding.:laugh:

 

[BobRyan]

Then the "beef" so to speak is not with YOU, but with the BOOK.

I would argue that it is more accurate to say that "the beef" is in fact doctrinal differences between SDAs and non-SDAs regarding actual Bible doctrine. I would say that the issue is really in determining if the SDA doctrine stands up to the test "sola scriptura" which it MUST if it is true. Otherwise it is false doctrine.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

HP: To some it must serve as a diversion tactic to avoid questions concerning their own beliefs on other threads that they seem to be avoiding.:laugh:

There is truth in what you are saying.

Though to be fair - on the OSAS threads and the free-will threads the opposition is usually not in the form of "you only say that because you are a stinky SDA" -- though some do try to use that from time to time.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JA: Then the "beef" so to speak is not with YOU, but with the BOOK. Would you say this was a bad statement by the writer?

HP: I am in no way supporting either the writings of Ellen White of the notions believed by BR. Just the same, did you simply not read BR’s last post? Try reading it and your answer will be clear. You are taking one small snippet and trying to insert your own conclusions as to the whole of what she believed. Who cares about Ellen White or what she believed? Ask BR what he believes and then debate it according to Scripture and reason. Do you desire us to bring up the words of Augustine or Calvin every time you post as if it is your duty to defend what they said because they are your fathers? Now that is indeed an interesting thought.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Is this quote in the book "The Great Controversy" or not?

It is in my 1907 Version.
It is in my 1990 Version.

IMHO the SDA doctrines are valid: I.E. logical extrapolations
of Scripture. I'm going to check with Mr. E.G.White when I
get to heaven.

We need to be kind to our fellow Christians, even if they
aren't Baptists.

 

[Joe]

Bob

Will you answer my two questions with a simple yes or no. No explanations needed.
Do you believe Ellen White is a prophet?

A Messenger from God?


Thanks,

Joe


I agree with you Ed, we need to be nice

 

[Jarthur001]

I would agree that this statement is much more clear in that regard



I would also argue that given the current inclination to take the former statement out of context - I would not have written it that way.

in Christ,

Bob

But do you see anything wrong with this statement, and would you go on record as saying it is not in line with the BIBLE?

I guess it is only fair to bring up that this idea was nothing new. This idea was sorta held 100s of years before White was born. There were other even stranger ideas. It is easy to call them strange on this side of the debate, having the history to read and all. But this idea and others were rejected without much of a following if I remember right.

Anyway I guess i would like to see if you would say anything that white wrote was wrong. anything? If not...then we have inspired work...from God no less. However..if you say there were something I disagree with, be it this phrase or another...well..she was just a writer.

As you know, I am a Calvinist. I think Calvin was a good writer, but I in no way agree with all that He said. In fact, I know of no writer I agree 100% with. I like Pink maybe the most. He is the funny looking guy i display beside my name. But there are a few things I disagree with in Pinks writings

So...are Whites works in her books inspired as if they were the very words of God?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Joe: Will you answer my two questions with a simple yes or no. No explanations needed.
Do you believe Ellen White is a prophet?

A Messenger from God?

HP: How about a pertinent question directed towards the living for a change? Are you or your pastor a prophet, and are you or your pastor a messenger of God’s?

 

[Jarthur001]

HP: I am in no way supporting either the writings of Ellen White of the notions believed by BR. Just the same, did you simply not read BR’s last post? Try reading it and your answer will be clear. You are taking one small snippet and trying to insert your own conclusions as to the whole of what she believed. Who cares about Ellen White or what she believed? Ask BR what he believes and then debate it according to Scripture and reason. Do you desire us to bring up the words of Augustine or Calvin every time you post as if it is your duty to defend what they said because they are your fathers? Now that is indeed an interesting thought.

White is the "founder and prophet from God" as SDA see it. This thread is about SDA, and it is fair to ask how far SDA take her writings. If she is viewed as a good writer...nothing wrong with that. That does not mean I or you agree with her, for we all have writers we like.

However, if she is held higher then just a writer. If her work has no error....well...now we have a whole new matter.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JA: So...are Whites works in her books inspired as if they were the very words of God?

HP: Have you read anything BR has posted tonight? Did he say that Ellen White was fallible or not? Why don’t you ask him something you have not asked him, although I know his answer. Ask him if God’s Words are inspired? That, along with the remarks he already made to the list this evening concerning E. White should clarify your uninspired questions for yourself.

 

[Jarthur001]

HP: How about a pertinent question directed towards the living for a change? Are you or your pastor a prophet, and are you or your pastor a messenger of God’s?

what do you not like about what we ask?

Let me ask you. Do you believe white had no wrong in her writings? Very harmless to ask, and it deals with the OP.

Do you?

 

[Ed Edwards]

...

Bob, do you believe Ellen was a Messenger from God? Just a yes or no will do. Thanks

(Note: I am not familiar with her being a prophet)

...

What kind of 'prophet' do you think Ellen White was?

I think that in the way that:
Messenger from God = Prophet (forth teller)
that Ellen White was a prophet. She read the Bible,
studied the news, & tryed to figure out what the Bible
future predictions mean both on earth & in heaven.


She did a lot better job than did Herbert W. Armstrong.


Caveat: I think Ellen White did a better job than Calvin
-- a better explanation of the Bible was given by Ellen White
than by Calvin. I don't agree that all things Ellen White
said were correct, but they were all logical extrapolations
of what the Living Word of God, Messiah Yeshua, said;
and what the Written Word of God, The Holy Bible, says.

 

[Jarthur001]

HP: Have you read anything BR has posted tonight? Did he say that Ellen White was fallible or not? Why don’t you ask him something you have not asked him, although I know his answer. Ask him if God’s Words are inspired? That, along with the remarks he already made to the list this evening concerning E. White should clarify your uninspired questions for yourself.

no he never said she was...this is why I ask.

Bob in your own words...Was Whites writings fallible?

If you want to know those other things...why not YOU ask him. I do not have to ask for you do i?

 

[Jarthur001]

What kind of 'prophet' do you think Ellen White was?

I think that in the way that:
Messenger from God = Prophet (forth teller)
that Ellen White was a prophet. She read the Bible,
studied the news, & tryed to figure out what the Bible
future predictions mean both on earth & in heaven.


She did a lot better job than did Herbert W. Armstrong.


Caveat: I think Ellen White did a better job than Calvin
-- a better explanation of the Bible was given by Ellen White
than by Calvin. I don't agree that all things Ellen White
said were correct, but they were all logical extrapolations
of what the Living Word of God, Messiah Yeshua, said;
and what the Written Word of God, The Holy Bible, says.

Ed...do you feel White made any mistakes in her writings?

 

[Joe]

HP: How about a pertinent question directed towards the living for a change? Are you or your pastor a prophet, and are you or your pastor a messenger of God’s?

Ask what you want. I haven't asked Bob this before, so allow me to continue please.

Bob??

 

[Joe]

What kind of 'prophet' do you think Ellen White was?

I think that in the way that:
Messenger from God = Prophet (forth teller)
that Ellen White was a prophet. She read the Bible,
studied the news, & tryed to figure out what the Bible
future predictions mean both on earth & in heaven.


She did a lot better job than did Herbert W. Armstrong.


Caveat: I think Ellen White did a better job than Calvin
-- a better explanation of the Bible was given by Ellen White
than by Calvin. I don't agree that all things Ellen White
said were correct, but they were all logical extrapolations
of what the Living Word of God, Messiah Yeshua, said;
and what the Written Word of God, The Holy Bible, says.

I would like Bob to answer first if that's ok. He is a current SDA.

Then I promise I'll answer to you Ed. Sorry, I grabbed the wrong post to reply to but
you know what I mean

 

[Ed Edwards]

Uh, which part of 'typified' are we having trouble with here?

The scape-goat was a type of what?
Ellen White thought the scape-goat was a
type of Satan, the author of sin & rebellion.
Doesn't pan out that way -- but I'm going to cut some
slack for Ellen White -- she did lots better than
that gal who wrote the Christian Science stuff (largely
illogical & out of sequence: pseudo-science & pseudo-Christian
stuff).

 

[Joe]

I don't know if I feel like getting into an Ellen White debate, I just want to know the simple answers to my questions directly from the person. No one else. Is Bob still here?

 

[Ed Edwards]

I would like Bob to answer first if that's ok. He is a current SDA.

Then I promise I'll answer to you Ed. ...

Actually he usually goes to bed at 8PM your time,
he will likely be back tomorrow.

Ed's observation:

It is hard to be hard on a person for whom one prays
every day. I pray for BobRyan every day -- have been
for three years or so here. I pray for him to have a good
success. How can I then give him a hard time?
Anyway, the SDA pastor who came to my house seemed
to have his act together better than the JW gal.
That JW gal didn't have her stuff memorized -- ask her a
question and she had to start all over at the beginning.
Ah well, we can't all get Michael Jackson coming over to
our house

I think there should be a 'Jackson' on our $10-bills.
But it should be Michael Jackson instead of Andrew Jackson.

 

[Jarthur001]

Uh, which part of 'typified' are we having trouble with here?

The scape-goat was a type of what?
Ellen White thought the scape-goat was a
type of Satan, the author of sin & rebellion.
Doesn't pan out that way -- but I'm going to cut some
slack for Ellen White -- she did lots better than
that gal who wrote the Christian Science stuff (largely
illogical & out of sequence: pseudo-science & pseudo-Christian
stuff).

Cut as much slack as you wish Ed. You can compare white to calvin, hitler, cain, smith, jones, luther, batman, Paul, John or whoever. In your eyes or someone elses, she may have seemed to be a great person. I would like a SDA to answer what has been asked.

Did White write anything in her books that was wrong? Or, must we hold White as if she made no error, just as we do the Bible?

For some reason I get the idea their are a few people that wish we would NOT ask this. For some reason I get the idea some want to just move on. Bob does not have to answer, But I want to give him a chance. Or maybe another SDA would like to step up. If it is what they believe, they will not hide from it, but be proud, for it is their faith. If it is not what they believe, they will want to say..."no...white did make some mistakes in her books...but still she is a good writer"...or something like that.

Are Whites books without error?