Should Christians rally behind the 2ND AMENDMENT?

[delly]

Marcia, if someone were breaking into your house to rape and kill you or your child, wouldn't you want some way to protect yourself and your family. There are some things in this life you just can't lay down for.

Guns are not bad in themselves. They are only bad in the hands of criminals and ignorant people. Are we to ban anything that can be used as a weapon? A brick, a shovel, or perhaps a butcher knife. It's seems silly to ban these useful things just because someone uses them to kill another human being. Do we ban vehicles? They are used to kill many people, probably more than guns are. Criminals use them to crash into banks and stores so they can rob the place. Drunks use them to kill whole families.
Guns, in and of themselves, do not kill people. The trigger has to be pulled by someone who has the desire to kill or someone who is ignorant of the consequences of pulling that trigger.
Your reasoning is illogical.

Why are you surprised at the attitute of people here? The thread is about guns, not religion.
If someone attacks my right to practice my religion, I will fight them just as vigorously as if they were trying to harm me physically. Start a thread about the government doing away with religious freedom completely and see what kind of replies you get.

By the way, people who are in the NRA are rarely criminals. And what is wrong with being into wildlife conservation and fishing?
Responsible gun owners are just that; Responsible.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
History shows us that if we lose our GOD-GIVEN right of self-protection then our Bibles are next…along with our right to witness, etc.

What country took away guns and then Bibles? I can't own a gun here, but nobody is after my Bible.

 

[Hardsheller]

I believe Nazi Germany took away Guns before they went after an entire religious and ethnic population, the Jews. Of course they bypassed seizing the Jewish Scriptures in the homes of the Jews - Why bother with the book when you can go after the person who believes and reads the book?

 

[mioque]

The Nazis never changed the gun laws of Germany.
The whole Nazi Germany gun control thing is an (American) urban legend.

 

[mioque]

"Wouldn't you feel safer with church members armed to the bone, knowing that they would be quick to respond if a psycho barges in? "
''
I'm picturing my congregation with firearms at the moment.
No!
But that's mostly because many of them haven't been trained in using guns.

 

[JGrubbs]

Originally posted by mioque:
The Nazis never changed the gun laws of Germany.
The whole Nazi Germany gun control thing is an (American) urban legend.

The New York Times, Nov. 9, 1938, 24.

"The Berlin Police President, Count Wolf Heinrich von Helldorf, announced that as a result of a police activity in the last few weeks the entire Jewish population of Berlin had been 'disarmed' with the confiscation of 2,569 hand weapons, 1,702 firearms and 20,000 rounds of ammunition. Any Jews still found in possession of weapons without valid licenses are threatened with the severest punishment."

The New York Times, Nov. 11, 1938, 1, 4.

"Nazis Smash, Loot and Burn Jewish Shops and Temples," a headline read. "One of the first legal measures issued was an order by Heinrich Himmler, commander of all German police, forbidding Jews to possess any weapons whatever and imposing a penalty of twenty years confinement in a concentration camp upon every Jew found in possession of a weapon hereafter."

 

[Jeff Weaver]

But Marcia, do you remember the incident last year when intruders barged inside a Baptist church and just shot members at random? Wouldn't you feel safer with church members armed to the bone, knowing that they would be quick to respond if a psycho barges in?

Do you carry your firearms to church?

No, I wouldnt feel safer with loaded weapons in my church or home for that matter.

Firearms are far more likely to be used on a family member than defending one's home against an intruder.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

gotta love it!

If an intruder crashed our assembly with his weapon pulled, I guarantee ya, he'd be looking down the barrels of a few.

 

[JGrubbs]

Originally posted by Jeff Weaver:
Firearms are far more likely to be used on a family member than defending one's home against an intruder.

Do you have any statistics to prove this, or is this just your opinion?

 

[Gina B]

I agree with Art, and I don't even have a gun.

I live alone with 3 girls. I choose not to have a gun, but I'd certainly say that aught to remain what I chose, not what I was ordered by law not to do.
With so many different weapons available, a gun is not my choice at this point in time. There's too many kids running in and out of here for that to be a good option.
It really does suprise me that there are people who agree that it would be fine and dandy for the government to take away even more of our rights.
Doesn't anyone see what's going on? The ability to provide food, provide protection, provide religious instruction, provide a Godly environment, those things are all scriptural.

Right now we have the right to have same sex unions, married or unmarried, and that automatically takes away a Godly environment.

We have the right to sue if we get hurt robbing someone's home. That takes away our safety.

We are losing the right to be armed. That takes away our safety and often our way to provide food.

It's becoming illegal to call immorality what it is, or to publicly display the bible or portions of it, or teach it in schools. That takes away our ability to provide religious instruction.

Look ahead a bit and see the results.
An unarmed nation, unable by government law to be armed with either physical or spiritual weapons, afraid to publically declare what is good and right for fear of government retribution.

Talk about a real threat of terrorism! Talk about homegrown terrorists. They're elected to our public offices, by US! And still, we support them.

So yeah, Christians should rally around ALL their rights! Or temporary privileges, more like it.

Gina

 

[Jeff Weaver]

Yep.

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/43times.html

 

[GrannyGumbo]

broJeffW~I hope ya didn't think I was laughing at you! No, it was the thought running thru' my head of a scene I've had many times over...my sense of humour gets outta line sometimes.

 

[JGrubbs]

Originally posted by Jeff Weaver:
Yep.

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/43times.html

That is a great link!!

Other than the fact that the study turns out to be nearly worthless except as a vehicle for gun control advocates to make false claims, it appears from the abstract that there was little if anything wrong with the study itself. They didn't say how they determined the gun used in the killing was "kept" in the home, so it is not possible to evaluate how well they made this determination. But the misuse and mistatements of the findings is where gun control advocates, including Kellermann, have perpetrated a huge lie.

The first thing that should be kept in mind is that the study started with a bunch of gun deaths in homes and, hence, households in which people were killed by someone using a gun. The fact that households where people are killed tend strongly to be nontypical (even aberrant, disfunctional) households, and their inhabitants tend to be abnormal and disfunctional in numerous ways, means that the results are not applicable to people or homes in general or to all households in which there are firearms.

I have seen info to the effect that 62% of the homicide cases were black, 52.7% of the households had a member with an arrest record, 31.3% had a history of drug abuse, and 31.8% had a household member who had been hurt in a family fight. These rates are far from typical of gun owners or of the general public. It is not logical to conclude from the study that, on average, households with guns or households in general will experience the kind of ratio the study found.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

A preacher told us once that he had to smuggle Bibles into communist China because it was illegal for the people to have them.

If you give up one right...the rest will soon follow...where does it stop? What would you do to prevent "them" from taking your bible if "they" should come for it?

BTW, we're just as adamant when the government tells us we have to quit witnessing in the public. It's not just about guns, it's about God-given rights!

 

[Hardsheller]

Originally posted by mioque:
The Nazis never changed the gun laws of Germany.
The whole Nazi Germany gun control thing is an (American) urban legend.

Show your proof, Please?

 

[Rooster]

( Statistics courtesy of US Dept. of Health and Human Services)

Doctors:
a) the number of Doctors in the US is 700,000
b) Accidental deaths caused by Doctors per are 120,000
c) Accidental deaths per doctoe is 0.171

Guns:
a) the number of gun owners in the US is 80,000,000
b) The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is 1,500
c) the number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188

Statistically, doctors are aproximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

Remember, guns don't kill people; doctors do.

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS A DOCTOR.

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban Doctors before this gets completely out of hand!!

Out of concern for the pulic at large, I have withheld the statistics on lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic ans seek medical attention.

 

[Rooster]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> some examples for ya marcie, now that that is settled , let me quote you something else, since you apperently are a femmenest who likes lipping off to Men 1 Timothy 2:11-12 (KJV) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man , but to be in silence.

You don't know what you are talking about, don't try to debate it with a Man.

You are way out of line. As a newcomer, you should maybe look at the posts on different threads here and see that women are welcome to debate here.

The Bible verse you quote is not applicable here at all.

Also, calling people names is not polite. Also, saying that I am "lipping off" is not a nice thing to say and violates God's command for a Christian man to treat younger women as his sisters and older women as his mother.

BTW, my name is "Marcia," not "Marcie." </font>[/QUOTE]First off I am not out of line to speak my opinion, or in this case quote the word of God in a Baptist forum. You are out of line to get lippy with me, a good Baptist , Bible beliveing, God fearing woman would know better. You are right to state the Bible tells men to treat women as the weaker vessle, And I do have a strong love for women, but, I do not tollerate tyrant woman, disrespecting the Word of God. The Bible verse I quote is applicable the whole world over , no exceptions. Show me were I called you a name, I might have labeled you a femmenist, but did not resort to name calling. And Marci your right , we got off on the wrong foot I appoligize for getting so heated up, gun control, along with all our constitutional rights is a very passionate subject for me, I will forgive your lipping off , can you forgive me?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by ROBERTGUWAPO:
Moses Charlton Heston said, "The right to bear arms is the right that allows all the other rights to exist." Therefore, maybe, surely, the AntiChrist will come only when all citizens have been disarmed.

So, shouldn't all Christians support the right to bear arms and NOT STAND ON THE SIDELINES?

Yes, I support the right to bear arms in accordance with Amendment II (in accordance with a federally regulated militia). I do not support the right to bear arms as a free for all on ownership of any and all weapons.

Originally posted by superdave:
limiting the gun ownership of law abiding citizens should be considered unconstitutional

I disagree. Amendment II allowed the federal government to well-regulate (limit, place restrictions on) the keeping abd bearing of arms.

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
We, the people, ARE the militia! It was the backwoods farmers, ordinary "joes", etc. (in other words the militia) that helped to win the American Revolution.

Granny is correct. A militia can be either an organized group, such as the National Guard, or simply an armed populus of ordinary people.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by DeclareHim:
My girlfriend shot a 12 point buck last year (she's the main reason I'm into hunting.)

I once saw a little doe with couple of bucks... oh wait, I was looking in my wallet!!!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by Rooster:
It kinda is a church issue, as our consitution was written by a Christian government (at the time anyways) to dismiss our GOD given rights would be a violation to all of our rights, ...

Are you really saying that you think the right to own a gun is a God given right?

And Marcia is right, 1 Timothy2v11-12 has NOTHING to do with debate in an open forum.