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Should the Amish be required to obey this law
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Darron Steele
New Member
Not under the United States Constitution -- at least I would assume.
However, as those of us who value right and wrong know, many judges make the Constitution mean or not mean whatever they want regardless of what it says.
However, as those of us who value right and wrong know, many judges make the Constitution mean or not mean whatever they want regardless of what it says.
Tom Butler
New Member
We've had a similar story here in Western Kentucky, where a few Old Order Amish have refused to put triangular "slow-moving vehicle" markers on their buggies or wagons.
They have put some reflective material on the buggies, but the state says you have to have those triangles.
The courts are beside themselves, and so are the prosecutors. The Amish are good citizens, and people around here are generally sympathetic to them. Most of us would like for the prosecutors to leave them alone. I think the prosecutors would like to leave them alone, too, but they feel they are duty-bound to enforce the law.
The law is clear, but politically its a lose-lose proposition. Nobody wants it on their record that they put an Amish guy in jail. And nobody wants those pictures splashed all over the front page, or the lead story in the TV newscasts. But only then will the law be modified to accommodate the Amish religious preferences.
They have put some reflective material on the buggies, but the state says you have to have those triangles.
The courts are beside themselves, and so are the prosecutors. The Amish are good citizens, and people around here are generally sympathetic to them. Most of us would like for the prosecutors to leave them alone. I think the prosecutors would like to leave them alone, too, but they feel they are duty-bound to enforce the law.
The law is clear, but politically its a lose-lose proposition. Nobody wants it on their record that they put an Amish guy in jail. And nobody wants those pictures splashed all over the front page, or the lead story in the TV newscasts. But only then will the law be modified to accommodate the Amish religious preferences.
Darron Steele
New Member
I see a difference in who is `making incursions' where.Tom Butler said:
On public highways, those are for the general population. If it is dark, and there is something in the road that is much closer in speed to 0 than to the speed limit, safety requires that the driver be able to know. That is what those triangles are for.
If the Amish do not want to have those triangles on their wagons, they need to stay off roads built for the general population. That is for their safety as well as those of us going about our normal lives.
On the other hand, I do not go onto an Amish colony often. In fact, I do not think I have ever done more than drive through one -- slowly. I have never entered an Amish building. When I enter an Amish colony, I am entering their world. If I do not want to accept being in buildings built to 1600's-1800's specifications, I will stay out of those buildings. Amish being Amish on Amish land does not pose any possible harm to me. If I do not want to accept their culture, I will stay off their land. That is called courtesy. People once believed it should be extended to almost anyone -- especially out of respect for people's religious beliefs.
Oh, and you can rest assured that the Amish will not be the last. The less Christians speak up, the quicker similar is going to happen to all of us.
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Samuel Owen
New Member
I suppose we have to throw this in somewhere.
Ro:13:7: Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
Ro:13:7: Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
Darron Steele
New Member
If we are going to discuss following civil law, until recently, the U. S. Constitution protected religious expression in general.Samuel Owen said:
I suspect it is the people who are harassing the Amish who are having trouble following U. S. law.
thegospelgeek
New Member
Not fair to other contractors if Amish can build homes not conforming to building codes that others must apply. It is not fair to a future buyer of a home that was built by Amish, not conformed to code, and the buyer doesn't know this. He buys the home and insurance inspectors then expect them to make upgrades they thought were already inplace. Not fair to a neighbor who buys a home, bbuilt to codes, then the next door home burns and burns their home in the process. All because someone else was allowed to bypass the laws that apply to the rest of us.
Amish already have an unfair advantage in many businesses because they do not pay the taxes that others have to pay, thus reducing their cost.
Either obey the laws or get out of the contracting business. n That's what any of us would have to do. What if we say baptist don't believe in sales tax? Would we have to pay it? Or could we be excused?
Amish already have an unfair advantage in many businesses because they do not pay the taxes that others have to pay, thus reducing their cost.
Either obey the laws or get out of the contracting business. n That's what any of us would have to do. What if we say baptist don't believe in sales tax? Would we have to pay it? Or could we be excused?
4His_glory
New Member
matt wade said:I don't think any of us should have to obey that law or any other law concerning building codes. How I build my house and who I have do it should be my concern only...not the governments.
The I never would want to be in your house. Building codes are a good idea. They help protect people from unsafe construction of which I have seen my fair share.
Unless I understand what is happening wrong, the Amish are building homes for themselves, not for sale to the general public. Big difference. Any halfway intelligent person who looks at an Amish house will know that it is missing a few things before they buy- plus, they are required in most cases to get a home inspection unless they are paying cash.thegospelgeek said:
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
The people of Northern New York are again thinking of their pockets ignoring the declaration of Independence and the US constitution. Religious freedom and property ownership are foundational to this country.
I think the religious freedom thing is overplayed. Shall we allow the Mormons to freely practice polygamy? Shall we allow other religious cults their oddities freely in public?
Obey the laws of the land is not a deprivation of religious freedom. These people are not above launching a lawsuit should something go awry. This has been proven in history.
Lawsuits has been the reason for installing certain laws and regulations in the building industry. Look at the recent situation with Habitat for Humanity and some houses that have apparently failed....People who were so poor that other people tried to help and a massive lawsuit is pending.
In a democracy we have freedom under law, not absolute freedom to do as we please without regard for our fellow inhabitants.
Cheers,
Jim
Obey the laws of the land is not a deprivation of religious freedom. These people are not above launching a lawsuit should something go awry. This has been proven in history.
Lawsuits has been the reason for installing certain laws and regulations in the building industry. Look at the recent situation with Habitat for Humanity and some houses that have apparently failed....People who were so poor that other people tried to help and a massive lawsuit is pending.
In a democracy we have freedom under law, not absolute freedom to do as we please without regard for our fellow inhabitants.
Cheers,
Jim
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Jim1999 said:
No one mentioned not following laws. But there is nothing that the Amish are doing to hurt their neighbors except preventing artificially raising property values. But following that were does it stop? Someone of a different color can lower property values. Property ownership and religious freedom are a cornerstone of this nation.
Tom Butler
New Member
Darron Steele said:
Oh, you are right. The law is clear but it is a political timebomb for prosecutors and judges.
Marcia said:
The job of government is to protect you from others. As stated before, as long as the Amish are building for themselves - then there should be leeway.
As far as traffic safety, I do believe that the govt has a responsibility to provide for SAFE travel for all.
Now, suppose a State or Commonwealth was to pass the following laws:
1. Church bells may not ring more than 20 db
2. Individuals preparing/serving communion must use plastic gloves
3. All Sunday School teachers must be State / (Commonwealth) certified
4. A pastor who preforms a wedding must be ordained by a recognized denomination.
(this would be hard for Baptist - as we don't have "denominations" and/or ordinations are approved by the local church)
5. Church finances must be audited once a year by a CPA who has no connection to the church at the expense of the church.
Now you might say, these laws could never happen. Never put anything past the govt.
Currently how many lawsuits do churches have against the govt at the present time.
Check out the ACLJ
And Jim, In the name of religious freedom, I can not be (politically) opposed to polygamy