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Should the Local Church Exercise Church Discipline upon Pastors and Elders?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Someone who claims to be a Christian, but whn caight in a know sin area, such as getting drunk a lot, commiting adultery, stealing from Tithes etc, just excuses it as still be "saved by Grace"
Yes.
Wonder why some hear seem to feel that the Chrsitian is just under obligation to God and themselves though?
Of course they should.
We fired a preacher a few years back for telling lies to the deacon board.
There seems to be a real desire to not practice church discipline in some circles though!
Did he get defrocked, and asked to move on his way then?
I think there are very few Churches today. Most are Sunday social clubs where the the members hang out under the steeple a couple times a week.
I don't know how you defrock a SBC pastor that you neither licensed nor ordained. He was fired. Whenever we were contacted by prospective churches for recommendations, they were told the truth.
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I agree with youon this, as doubt many would do what I heard one time on the radio, as the believe was Communists or Nazis came into the local church and for 2 hours rant on about how Jesus was dead, and so was Christianity, and that if they persist in this, soldiers were there to shoot them down when they left church. Pastor stood up, and all he said was 'He is risen", they all answered'Risen indeed"
I did not know one could be a SBC pastor without being either liceansed or ordained ?
He was licensed and ordained long before we hired him.
And that is the problem with many (most?) baptist churches today. They practice a form of Roman Catholic "ordination."
Biblically, ordination is a function of the local congregation. They ordain a man to be their pastor. When he moves on, for whatever reason, he is no longer their pastor so he is no longer ordained. When he moves to a new ministry that local congregation will ordain him their pastor or whatever office he may hold.
Baptists today often confuse License with Ordination. When I was licensed, I was brought before a board of learned men, many of them my seminary professors, and questioned for several hours. They then recommended to the congregation that I be licensed.
When I was called to be Senior Pastor of the church in San Diego, the pulpit committee questioned me for several hours (including my education and prior licensing, and prior ordination to positions at other churches of like faith and order) and then recommended that I be ordained to minister there as their Senior Pastor.
Just do it God's way and a lot of trouble and confusion is avoided.
Biblically, ordination is a function of the local congregation. They ordain a man to be their pastor. When he moves on, for whatever reason, he is no longer their pastor so he is no longer ordained. When he moves to a new ministry that local congregation will ordain him their pastor or whatever office he may hold.
Baptists today often confuse License with Ordination. When I was licensed, I was brought before a board of learned men, many of them my seminary professors, and questioned for several hours. They then recommended to the congregation that I be licensed.
When I was called to be Senior Pastor of the church in San Diego, the pulpit committee questioned me for several hours (including my education and prior licensing, and prior ordination to positions at other churches of like faith and order) and then recommended that I be ordained to minister there as their Senior Pastor.
Just do it God's way and a lot of trouble and confusion is avoided.
Probably the way it should be done, but SBC does not do it that way.
Of course.
1 Timothy 5:19-22 19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses. 20 Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning. 21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality. 22 Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.
I can remember a church whose constitution explicitly stated that anybody the church ordained stopped being ordained when the person left that church.
I don't get what you mean by demeaning "Roman Catholic 'ordination'" and then making a point 'learned men' questioned you and recommended that your congregation license you, and that to become Senior Pastor the committee questioned you about prior ordination at "other churches of like faith and order." It seems as if you're arguing 2 positions-- that licensing/ordination is a local congregational priority, while also it is a 'denominational' or ecclesiastical authority function.
Which is it? If it a congregational thing, then why have 'learned men' not in that congregation question you? And if ordination as Senior Pastor is also a congregational thing, why should they ask other churches about your prior ordinations?
Who said they were not part of the congregation to which I, at that time, belonged?
The same reason a prospective employer asks about previous employment.
In my experience, ordination councils have included "learned men", some from outside the local church. Once the council is concluded, the non-members become spectators and it's then the responsibility of the local church to ordain (or not ordain, though I've not witnessed that yet.) Generally the council takes place on one day and ordination on a subsequent day.