Since the Bible doesnt directly mention the Trinity, will Jehova Witneses or

[TaliOrlando]

Since the Bible doesnt directly mention the Trinity, will Jehova Witneses or other religions who dont accept it be sent to hell???????

 

[Alcott]

I don't always like opening a can of worms, but occasionally I do it anyway. There's an old discussion somewhere in those hills-- or 'archives'-- where I said that, even though I am a trinitarian, per se, I don't think accepting the theology of the trinity is essential for salvation; simply because you can say Jesus is your Lord and really mean it without that belief, and as it's stated in I Corinthians, no one can say that "without the Holy Spirit." As to Jehovah's Witnesses, as you asked, I don't think rejection of that belief is what will send them to "hell" [hades and/or the lake of fire]-- but have you ever heard a JW proclaim Jesus is his/her Lord? I don't think I have. It's that chiefly, plus relegating him [Jesus] into a created being, an incarnation of Michael the archangel, and a body which didn't rise up again in resurrection that louses them up.

Okay, I'm ready... Salvationists by trinitarianism-- draw!

 

[billwald]

Jesus taught the statndard was loving God and being a good neighbor. Nothing to do with "believing (in)."

 

[Rufus_1611]

Since the Bible doesnt directly mention the Trinity, will Jehova Witneses or other religions who dont accept it be sent to hell???????

What is 1 John 5:7 if it isn't a direct mention of the Trinity/Godhead?

 

[BobRyan]

Since the Bible doesnt directly mention the Trinity, will Jehova Witneses or other religions who dont accept it be sent to hell???????

I don't think so. It is very unlikely that all the Saints of Heb 11 in the OT understood the truth of the Trinity Doctrine as we do today. I don't think this stops the Gospel from working in their case.

And I believe in ONE GOSPEL that works the SAME in all ages Gal 1:6-11

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

What is 1 John 5:7 if it isn't a direct mention of the Trinity/Godhead?

Matt 28 and the great commission and 1John 5:7 (That some translations note is an insert) both speak to the topic of the Trinity as do other texts in the bible. The point is not that the bible does not have this doctrine contained in it - but rather that it is not as obvious to some as it is to others.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[TaliOrlando]

I don't think so. It is very unlikely that all the Saints of Heb 11 in the OT understood the truth of the Trinity Doctrine as we do today. I don't think this stops the Gospel from working in their case.

And I believe in ONE GOSPEL that works the SAME in all ages Gal 1:6-11

in Christ,

Bob

Jehova Witnesses believe that the only GOD is Jehova, Jesus was only a prophet and the Holy Spirit is a force am I correct??

 

[Rufus_1611]

Jehova Witnesses believe that the only GOD is Jehova, Jesus was only a prophet and the Holy Spirit is a force am I correct??

If they believe that God is Jehovah then they are correct...

"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." - Psalm 83:18​

...however, I don't suspect they believe in the same Jehovah God Christians do.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Matt 28 and the great commission and 1John 5:7 (That some translations note is an insert) both speak to the topic of the Trinity as do other texts in the bible. The point is not that the bible does not have this doctrine contained in it - but rather that it is not as obvious to some as it is to others.

in Christ,

Bob

I thought the point was that "the Bible doesnt directly mention the Trinity". This seems unreasonable, as the Holy Bible clearly does directly mention the Trinity/Godhead.

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." - 1 John 5:7 (The Holy Bible)​

It is thus, illogical to consider that the Bible doesn't directly mention the trinity as I can't see it being anymore direct and obvious as that verse.

However, if someone has a "Bible", such as the New World Translation, which attacks the Godhead by omission, then I can see how the Godhead might not be obvious to such a reader.

"For there are three witness bearers," - 1 John 5:7 (The Unholy New World Translation)​

 

[ccrobinson]

Not to mention how the NWT changes John 1:1 and makes the Word "a god".

 

[steaver]

Not to mention how the NWT changes John 1:1 and makes the Word "a god".

What must be done if the Word of God does not support your views?

Write your own bible to give to your victums! NWT. Which was written in the nineteen fifties I believe. You would think that alone would be a huge red flag for anyone pondering trusting in this bible.

Only "born again" will save the JW and only by this regeneration could they understand God's Word on this matter.

They find no reason to call on Jesus to save them since Jesus is just "a" son and a prophet in their view. They attempt to get into heaven by another way rather than through the Shepherd. They will find themselves hearing the words of Matt 7:21. This is sad and I feel so badly for them when I see them and when they come to my door I try my best to give them the Gospel but they fear family more than God.

There is a former JW who became saved and now goes to our church. She gave testimony to us of how difficult it is to shake off all of the false teachings that she had been indoctrinated in throughout the years. She said they pound it into your head that Jesus is not God over and over. Although she has received the rebirth in Christ and now knows Jesus is Lord of her life, the Only Son of God, she says it is still difficult casting off the years of false teachings. She has to forget all that she thought she knew and begin fresh. She was a JW for over twenty years!

Anyone who would teach that Jesus is "just" a prophet would have to be classified as "anti-christ". Muslims teach the same and we do not consider them a fringe denomination of Christian. There is no way this group can be saved and teach such blasphemy. The Trinity might be hard to understand for some but all the Truths written in the scriptures about Jesus' position as God is not. One must distort and twist a huge chunk of scripture to reject that Jesus is LORD.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[Gwyneth]

a JW showed me a book in which The Lord Jesus was described as " a famous preacher"

 

[BobRyan]

Jehova Witnesses believe that the only GOD is Jehova, Jesus was only a prophet and the Holy Spirit is a force am I correct??

I think that is correct - but how many Jews in Christ's day that were following Christ -- thought the same thing??

In Heb 11 we see a large list of saints in the OT - I find it hard to believe that they all had as good a grasp of the Trinity doctrine as we do today.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

I think that is correct - but how many Jews in Christ's day that were following Christ -- thought the same thing??

Many, and that is why they needed a rebirth, as did Nicodemus. John 8:31-59 is a perfect example of those who "believed on him" but by the end of this particular conversation those same Jews were picking up stones to kill him. Many today claim to "follow" Jesus, but they lack regeneration, they need Christ "in you". There is christianity the religion and there is Christianity the relationship. Only the latter saves.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

In Heb 11 we see a large list of saints in the OT - I find it hard to believe that they all had as good a grasp of the Trinity doctrine as we do today.

in Christ,

Bob

I would add they had not any clue of the Trinity doctrine, as revealed by God spiritually. Even though God had given these truths in His OT written Word, God still only revealed truth to men as He seen fit in His own timing unlocking truths in the writings at different times in history. Even though Jesus told the disciples that He would rise again the third day, it went in one ear and out the other until Jesus brought it to their memory afterwards. Jhn 20:9For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

I believe you may be correct.

But in 1Thess 4 they are all "the Dead in Christ".

In 1Cor 15 they are "those who are Christ's"

In Heb 11 they are the giants of faith - held up before even the NTsaints as "examples".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Many, and that is why they needed a rebirth, as did Nicodemus.

Is there even one text of scripture that says that OT saints were not born-again because they did not know about the Trinity?

Is there even one text of scripture that indicates that John the baptizer was not born again OR that he understood the Trinity?

Is there even one sentence in John 3 that say "you must be born again because although you know the Bible you do not understand the doctrine of the Trinity"?

Do we have any indication that David, Moses, Samuel, Elijah, Enoch, Abraham were not really born-again and died without being saved? Can one be called "righteous" and be "justified" and saved -- WITHOUT being born again according to Christ in John 3?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

Do we have any indication that David, Moses, Samuel, Elijah, Enoch, Abraham were not really born-again and died without being saved? Can one be called "righteous" and be "justified" and saved -- WITHOUT being born again according to Christ in John 3?

in Christ,

Bob

Here is what the bible says about the Holy Spirit.........

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)" (John 7:38-39)

Can you tell me how the OT saints received the Holy Spirit before Jesus was glorified?

Is this scripture an error?

John says the Holy Spirit was not yet given and John gives the reason why, because that Jesus was not yet glorified.

But you say the Holy Spirit was given and it was given before Jesus was glorified.

Please explain why i should believe you over God's word.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

Steaver never lets me off the hook.

Ok then the Bible it is...

John 3:3-12 The Holy Spirit was "already given to individuals" John 3:3-12 and Christ scolded the Hebrew Bible teacher Nicodemus for not already knowing of the individual work of the Holy Spirit.

Gen 41:38 – the Holy Spirit was IN Joseph

Ezek 3:24 – the Holy Spirit was IN Ezekiel and ON Ezekiel

Isaiah 63:8-14, HS IN your midst

Ps 51:8-12 – HS working with David just as He does with us today

Is 59:21 – Holy Spirit was upon them, forever promises of the Holy Spirit

Hag 2:5 “My Holy Spirit is abiding IN your midst”

Jer 24:7 “A heart to Know Me”

John 3 – the Work of the Holy Spirit in the New Birth to be known by Jewish Bible Scholars pre-cross.

This shows that the Holy Spirit for which the disciples waited in Acts 1 is the same one already given to them in Matt 10 and John 20:22

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

This shows that the Holy Spirit for which the disciples waited in Acts 1 is the same one already given to them in Matt 10 and John 20:22

in Christ,

Bob

Then Jesus being glorified had nothing to do with it and it should not have been written down in the passage?

God Bless! :tonofbricks: