Since the Bible doesnt directly mention the Trinity, will Jehova Witneses or

[BobRyan]

As for Nicodemus, I explained to you before that it wasn't that he should have known the OT saints were "born-again" but rather he could have known :thumbs:

Let's see if that assumption holds true to the text of scripture.

John 3:9-10New American Standard Bible (NASB)
9Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be?" 10Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?

King James Version (KJV)
9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
9Nicodemus answered and said to him, `How are these things able to happen?' 10Jesus answered and said to him, `Thou art the teacher of Israel -- and these things thou dost not know!


Darby Translation (DARBY)
9Nicodemus answered and said to him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said to him, Thou art the teacher of Israel and knowest not these things!

The suggestion you are making is that these texts should have been written "you are a teacher of Israel - I wonder if you can guess whether this is true or not given the clues that you have so far".

It is left as an exercise for the reader to see which way the text directs us.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

GE:

Forgive me for not having time now. But maybe it's a good thing - because the answer is very short, in that it is God's way. God does not save but He saves as God - complete 'God' and completely as, 'God'. That is, God does not save, but He saves while being, and through being, All, of the Father, All, of the Son, and All, of the Holy Spirit. Take away (supposing) One of the Three-In-One, and 'it' (supposing) is not, 'God'; take away (supposing) any of the Full Divine Being, 'character', 'essence', of any of the Three-In-One of this, Only God, 'he' or 'it', no longer is 'God', no longer is 'mighty', no longer is anything, any more, or, ever! That, dear Steaver, makes also your salvation as the salvation of any human who lived in the past or will live in the future, absolutely conditional on the work of the Holy Spirit. It is God's way to save, that He saves while He is Himself, fully, and while He makes over, you, the one who is saved, fully. Which is the work of the Holy Spirit, fully. Which, in the one saved, is the rebirth, or the new creation, or the new heart, or he is not saved at all.

Maybe you will have time in the future. God Bless!

(GE).....My time is really up. Nevertheless, just this by-the-buy - 'The Living Water' - I would rather believe is Jesus; not the Holy Spirit.

You would? Even though God's Word says it is the Holy Spirit? That is odd. Don't you give a whole lot of credence to those who say the Word of God is infalliable?

Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Jhn 7:39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Sorry, I just can't twist this into the Living Water being Jesus.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

Let's see if that assumption holds true to the text of scripture.

Well so far you haven't provided any concrete alternative.

God Bless! :thumbsup:

 

[steaver]

It is left as an exercise for the reader to see which way the text directs us.

in Christ,

Bob

You like to say this but many times refuse to "exercise" yourself.

Here are two verses for you to exercise........

Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Jhn 7:39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Tell me why you believe one can be born-again pre-glorification without receiving the Living Water/Holy Spirit that scripture declares was given only after Jesus' glorification.

God Bless! :thumbsup:

 

[gekko]

i was born on september the third 1987.
----

in that above statement.
since i did not specifically say that i am twenty years old - does that mean that i am not twenty years old?

----

all over scripture (O.T. and N.T.) there are references and examples galore of the Trinity.
does that mean that because the word trinity is not in scripture that there is no trinity at all?

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

(1 john 5:7 kjv)

like... how does that NOT refer to the trinity?

A-Duh!

God bless!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Maybe you will have time in the future. God Bless!



You would? Even though God's Word says it is the Holy Spirit? That is odd. Don't you give a whole lot of credence to those who say the Word of God is infalliable?

Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Jhn 7:39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Sorry, I just can't twist this into the Living Water being Jesus.

God Bless!

GE:
Jesus said He is the Water of Life.

And much more to the same effect.

But you, refering to: "
Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water", mistake the witness of the saved, and the joy and faith and hope and whatever 'flows' from the believer because of the Living Fountain of Water Himself in his heart through the working of the Holy Spirit, mistake it for, the Holy Spirit. Which is wrong.

 

[steaver]

Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water", mistake the witness of the saved, and the joy and faith and hope and whatever 'flows' from the believer because of the Living Fountain of Water Himself in his heart through the working of the Holy Spirit, mistake it for, the Holy Spirit. Which is wrong.

Then God's word is wong when God says "But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive"?

This really has no room for a debate don't you think? The word is crystal clear.

God Bless! :thumbsup:

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Then God's word is wong when God says "But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive"?

This really has no room for a debate don't you think? The word is crystal clear.

God Bless! :thumbsup:

GE:

"This" demonstrates the whole of the context before - from 28 at least. And the content of the whole of it was Jesus. Jesus would not be received but through the working of the Holy Spirirt upon the hearts of men to receive HIM, as the Living Water within their hearts. It is not to say salvation before, happened without the work of the Holy Spirit. It only implied Jesus yet had to suffer death and be raised in order that the Holy Spirit may go on with His work ON STRENGTH OF JESUS' VICTORY.

 

[steaver]

GE:

"This" demonstrates the whole of the context before - from 28 at least. And the content of the whole of it was Jesus. Jesus would not be received but through the working of the Holy Spirirt upon the hearts of men to receive HIM, as the Living Water within their hearts. It is not to say salvation before, happened without the work of the Holy Spirit. It only implied Jesus yet had to suffer death and be raised in order that the Holy Spirit may go on with His work ON STRENGTH OF JESUS' VICTORY.

Ok, but I believe verse 39 is a direct point given to verse 38. I don't see any need or reason to asign it to anything beyond that. I am going to stick with this. Thanks for your imput though!

God Bless! :thumbsup:

 

[Link]

I am not sure that a proper understanding of the nature of Christ in all areas is necessary for salvation. Peter did not mention the deity of Christ to a Jewish, monotheistic audience in the acount we have in Acts 2 or other passages in Acts. Philip did not mention it in the account of his preaching to the Ethiopian. I would tend toward saying that it is not necessary for salvation.

But in the case of JW's, if I am not mistaken, they do not believe Christ's body rose from the dead. They believe Christ came back as some sort of spirit and that his body was kept as a memorial before God, basically a gnostic belief, if I am not mistaken. I was surprised to find this out.