Sinless Perfectionism/Total Sanctification

[evangelist6589]

Was out witnessing today and did some open air preaching. I was interviewed by some video journalists whom were doing a documentary and I got asked a number of questions on grace, sovereignty, bad things happening to good people, evil in the world, sin, and the tough question on if God was pleased with me of which I said in terms of salvation and earning God's favor no chance, but in terms of rewards in heaven God is pleased with all believers that are involved in evangelism.

After I spoke with the video journalists I had a chat with a man whom seemed very confused. He claimed to have been saved, but since he sinned after his conversion he thought it all did not make sense. I told him of God's grace and about our sin after conversion only hinders our fellowship with God, but not our salvation, but that did not make sense to him. I believe the man was caught in the lie of Sinless Perfectionism which is a Weslyian doctrine rooted in Arminian theology.

RC Sproul says

Inevitably the error of perfectionism breeds one, or usually two, deadly delusions. To convince ourselves that we have achieved sinlessness, we must either suffer from a radical overestimation of our moral performance or we must seriously underestimate the requirements of God’s law. The irony of perfectionism is this: Though it seeks to distance itself from antinomianism, it relentlessly and inevitably comes full circle to the same error.

To believe that we are sinless we must annul the standards of God’s Law. We must reduce the level of divine righteousness to the level of our own performance. We must lie to ourselves both about the Law of God and about our own obedience. To do that requires that we quench the Spirit when He seeks to convict us of sin. Persons who do that are not so much Spirit-filled as they are Spirit-quenchers.

One of the true marks of our ongoing sanctification is the growing awareness of how far short we fall of reaching perfection. Perfectionism is really antiperfectionism in disguise. If we think we are becoming perfect, then we are far from becoming perfect.

I can't recall the definition of antinomianism off the top of my head can anyone? I believed this man to be a false convert but I am not entirely sure. He kept asking me how to be a true convert and I simply said that he needed to repent of his sins and submit to the Lordship of Christ, but he claimed he did submit to Christ's Lordship, but he did sin after the submission and he was not saved and did not feel saved. I said I could answer all his questions but agreed to mail him a book.

I had a hard time selecting one book as there are dozens. I was gonna send him The Gospel According to Jesus, but as it is quite academic and better suited for seminary types I chose to send him How you can be sure that you will spend eternity with God by Erwin Lutzer instead. Its written for laymen, is not academic and is written so anyone can understand it, and also its not very long at only 150 pages. I hope I made the right choice and this man comes to true salvation. Please keep him in prayer his name is Brandon.

 

[quantumfaith]

Was out witnessing today and did some open air preaching. I was interviewed by some video journalists whom were doing a documentary and I got asked a number of questions on grace, sovereignty, bad things happening to good people, evil in the world, sin, and the tough question on if God was pleased with me of which I said in terms of salvation and earning God's favor no chance, but in terms of rewards in heaven God is pleased with all believers that are involved in evangelism.

After I spoke with the video journalists I had a chat with a man whom seemed very confused. He claimed to have been saved, but since he sinned after his conversion he thought it all did not make sense. I told him of God's grace and about our sin after conversion only hinders our fellowship with God, but not our salvation, but that did not make sense to him. I believe the man was caught in the lie of Sinless Perfectionism which is a Weslyian doctrine rooted in Arminian theology.

RC Sproul says



I can't recall the definition of antinomianism off the top of my head can anyone? I believed this man to be a false convert but I am not entirely sure. He kept asking me how to be a true convert and I simply said that he needed to repent of his sins and submit to the Lordship of Christ, but he claimed he did submit to Christ's Lordship, but he did sin after the submission and he was not saved and did not feel saved. I said I could answer all his questions but agreed to mail him a book.

I had a hard time selecting one book as there are dozens. I was gonna send him The Gospel According to Jesus, but as it is quite academic and better suited for seminary types I chose to send him How you can be sure that you will spend eternity with God by Erwin Lutzer instead. Its written for laymen, is not academic and is written so anyone can understand it, and also its not very long at only 150 pages. I hope I made the right choice and this man comes to true salvation. Please keep him in prayer his name is Brandon.

Everything you don't like, don't agree with or somehow is bad, you assign to Arms.....give it a rest DUDE.

 

[Iconoclast]

evangelist6589

I can't recall the definition of antinomianism off the top of my head can anyone? I believed this man to be a false convert but I am not entirely sure. He kept asking me how to be a true convert and I simply said that he needed to repent of his sins and submit to the Lordship of Christ, but he claimed he did submit to Christ's Lordship, but he did sin after the submission and he was not saved and did not feel saved. I said I could answer all his questions but agreed to mail him a book.

Sorry but based on your post you must ask yourself the question as to if you are equipped for such an undertaking...

You quote from Sproul,and in the next breath you do not know what antinomianism is?

Why do you quote this article without understanding?

No one person is going to know everything...but you need to know the answers to these things before you go public.

Reading some books is good...but understanding what you read is better.

 

[Iconoclast]

Everything you don't like, don't agree with or somehow is bad, you assign to Arms.....give it a rest DUDE.

Sinless perfection is an error from Wesleyan Arminianism which although you like all things Arminian....it comes with the territory.
That is why people flee that teaching....not embrace it.
It harms people. Maybe Jack Kotrell will recommend it however:thumbs:

When error is exposed as such it is not a good idea to go and play with it like a toy. These false ideas , like open theism are evil....not thought provoking because they go right against scripture.

 

[evangelist6589]

evangelist6589




Sorry but based on your post you must ask yourself the question as to if you are equipped for such an undertaking...

You quote from Sproul,and in the next breath you do not know what antinomianism is?

Why do you quote this article without understanding?

No one person is going to know everything...but you need to know the answers to these things before you go public.

Reading some books is good...but understanding what you read is better.

No I am not perfect, and the task of the evangelist is to present the gospel & call people to repentance. I am not the master theologian on all issues of theology which I generally try and avoid, and believe me some have tried to debate with me over various views of Dispensationalism, eschatology, and other views of which I avoid. However this person would not be convinced no mater what I said and therefore a good book may be of help. But in all honesty I personally believed anyone whom held to perfectionism is either deceived and in error or not saved.

Oh and by the way the call to evangelize is for all Christians. Many so called "professional or ordained" evangelists do not preach the entire gospel, nor address sin like they should. Paul Washer states that its not about eloquence, intellect, or qualifications, but about being bold, confident, and clear in ones gospel presentation. The Way of the Master equips all christians to do biblical evangelism, and those whom are called to do open air preaching.

 

[evangelist6589]

Sinless perfection is an error from Wesleyan Arminianism which although you like all things Arminian....it comes with the territory.
That is why people flee that teaching....not embrace it.
It harms people. Maybe Jack Kotrell will recommend it however:thumbs:

When error is exposed as such it is not a good idea to go and play with it like a toy. These false ideas , like open theism are evil....not thought provoking because they go right against scripture.

I believe openness theology to be a bigger error than total sanctification. Open Theism challenges the very nature of God and his sovereignty.

 

[preacher4truth]

No I am not perfect, and the task of the evangelist is to present the gospel & call people to repentance. I am not the master theologian on all issues of theology which I generally try and avoid, and believe me some have tried to debate with me over various views of Dispensationalism, eschatology, and other views of which I avoid. However this person would not be convinced no mater what I said and therefore a good book may be of help. But in all honesty I personally believed anyone whom held to perfectionism is either deceived and in error or not saved.

Oh and by the way the call to evangelize is for all Christians. Many so called "professional or ordained" evangelists do not preach the entire gospel, nor address sin like they should. Paul Washer states that its not about eloquence, intellect, or qualifications, but about being bold, confident, and clear in ones gospel presentation. The Way of the Master equips all christians to do biblical evangelism, and those whom are called to do open air preaching.

It's good to see you were in essence in the OP 'thinking out loud'. Iconoclast also has given good advice though, and taking time to now understand terms not known at first will give further light to your understanding.

 

[evangelist6589]

It's good to see you were in essence in the OP 'thinking out loud'. Iconoclast also has given good advice though, and taking time to now understand terms not known at first will give further light to your understanding.

Yes indeed as there is always something to learn. I am not out as often as in SC which was 1-2 times weekly when I lived only 10 mins away from DT, so am out only once a month and perhaps am not as in practice as I was before. But yes I agree its important to know how to refute cults and false doctrines, and if I cannot do it then I mail a book. In SC I had a long chat with an atheist author and we were unable to persuade each other so I mailed him a book which may have helped I never heard.

Iconlast seems well read and seems to stay up with James White and his books whom may be an apologetics expert.