slavery and kidnapping

The Scripture has been shown earlier that "enslavers" is specifically prohibited (I Timothy 1:10) The word for enslavers is "andrapodistes," which more accurately means "one who unjustly reduces free men to slavery, as well as one who steals slaves and sells them" according to Thayer's. This, to me, is the clearest indication that pre-civil war slavery was an abomination to God. The Black slaves would fall under this category, as they were either free before being sold into slavery or were slaves over in Africa before being bought and shipped over here.

Therefore, can we not conclude that this type of slavery is much different from the kind of slavery that, say, Onesimus was subject to? Does it therefore follow that slaves who were once free and were stolen into slavery were not committing a sin by wanting and attempting to return to that freedom which was once theirs?

 

People were kidnapped from their families in Africa and sold into slavery. I think it matters zero whether fellow Africas did the selling or not, this was wrong.

This is just your opinion. The Africans had legal right to capture, enslave, sell their captives. So who are you to say that it was wrong? I think that abortion is wrong. I'll tell anyone who'll listen that it's wrong but the gov't says it's legal so it goes on and I have to abide with it and pray that God would bring change in men's hearts.

IF your daugther was kidnapped and sold into slavery in the Sudan, would that be wrong, but her child born in the Sudan be lawfully a slave. How about her grandchild.

Yes it would be wrong for here it would be considered kidnapping and yes I'd shoot, bite, poke to death with a straight pin anyone who dare lay a hand on my daugter. I'm biblically commanded to protect my family against such.

But if my gov't said that it was legal then I would just have to deal with it and pray that my daughter would be faithful to God and that I'd see her in glory.

"Fear not those that kill the body but rather he who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell"

A christian brother should one up that treating them fairly and SEND THEM HOME! I would hope a Christian brother would send me home after buying me from the slave trade after I was kidnapped.

You make a false assumptiont that to be enslaved is unjust. It may be unfair in our eyes but like God told Job, Just who do you think you are?

 

Sending them home would have probably got them executed or killed considering the brutal way of African tribal warfare. In God's providence however just as Joseph benefited from his slavery so the descendants of slaves have ultimately benefited in having a better lifestyle than their fellow Africans in Africa whose ancestors sold them into slavery.

 

They had the legal right, but not the Biblical right. They were "enslavers" which is an abomination.

So it's okay to murder someone as long as you're protecting your family? Where is that in Scripture?

it's not a false assumption - it's a Biblical one. It is an ungodly thing to trade, sell, or buy slaves who were once free men. (I Tim. 1:10)

 

Kidnapping yes wrong, enslaving legally no.

Man, you're off in left field here. First of all don't tell me who I do and do not care about.

Secondly, if I understand this blather correctly. If the guy next door to me is kidnapped and enslaved in a foreign country then brought back to my home town and I buy him then I'm suppressing his freedom.

This is a totally unrealistic example for today's world. If my neighbor is kidnapped his rights given him by this nation's government have been violated and this nation's laws against kidanpping have been violated. Even if I wanted to buy by neighbor I couldn't as it's ILLEGAL for me to do so.

This is ridiculous.

You don't listen do you. I didn't say anything about me obeying the Sudan's Gov't. I said if MY gov't....

First off..

Secondly I've never made the assumption that the Bible was false.

I'm assuming that NRSV stands for NEW REVISED STANDARD VERSION. The NEW REVISED part was enough for me.

I'll post another reply that I put in another thread in case you missed it that sums up what I think about people changing the meaning of scripture to fit their need since it quite obvious that if the verse in I Timothy was indicating slavers instead of menstealers it would be in vast contradiction with many other scriptures where slavers were called righteous and honorable men such as Onesimus.


I've come to the conclusion that you would rather maintain your cozy little image of God and the mind of Christ instead of face reality so unless you have a particular text you would like to debate I'm through with the hypotheticals and banter.

Kent Witcher

 

As mentioned in an earlier thread, the American institution was built around those who the Bible calls "enslavers,"

It amazes me how all these people who never wanted to listen to what Bro. Osgatharp or myself or others quoted from the Bible but someone comes up with some new revised translation that uses the word enslavers instead of menstealers which has been the word used for hundreds of years and now all of a sudden they care about what the Bible says.

Gimme a break!

 

I'd like to clarify this a little more before the wolves converge....

What I mean is that if a person's gov't gives them the right to own slaves and sets up a social order in which men are slaves then it is not only legal it is not evil.

The only evil in which I would be participating today if I owned or attempted to own a slave would be that I would be breaking the law of my gov't which is strictly forbidden by God.

We forget that the so called unalienable rights that we have as Americans are given to us by the United States of America they are not God given rights as many have been duped into believing.

We have the God given right to do what God said to do and that's it.

So kidnapping is evil and sinful and damnable and anything else that fits.

Owning slaves or buying/selling slaves is not intrinsically wicked or sinful. The treatment of such slaves can or cannot be depending on the person and situation.

 

It's called "Liberia." (See History of Liberia at this link)

 

>>>>>What I mean is that if a person's gov't gives them the right to own slaves and sets up a social order in which men are slaves then it is not only legal it is not evil.<<<<<<

Morality and ethics are not determined by governments. Anyone who does not think slavery is wrong has a strange sense of morality. I agree with Lincoln when he said that "If slavery is not wrong, then nothing is wrong".

If you can justify slavery on moral grounds then is there anything that cannot be justified?

 

>>>>>Owning slaves or buying/selling slaves is not intrinsically wicked or sinful. The treatment of such slaves can or cannot be depending on the person and situation. <<<<<<

Even in the south slaver traders were not considered respectable people.

 

Slavery is going on today in America.

It's called Taxation without Representation. When was the last time your elected politician voted in your best interest? They just voted to give themselves another raise.

How much of your pay check is going to taxes?

Call it what you will, I call it slavery. And there is nothing moral about it.

 

You tell 'em, SheEagle. If working until around July 11 to pay for all of federal, State, and local government spending isn't slavery, then the word "slavery" no longer has any meaning.

 

What about paying these public servants their annual salary for the rest of their lives? And a percentage of it to their spouses? What about the 13 states of emergencies our federal government is currently operating under in order to levy income taxes?

What is up with having the power to vote yourself an annual raise? These people aren't playing with their own money folks...why can't they agree on anything but a joint annual raise?


Bro. Dallas

 

My congressman often votes for my best interest. He knows that if he doesn't, my neighborhood will find a new congressman.

About the right amount. I really enjoyed my public school. I like driving on roads. I was very appreciative for my federal scholarship that paid my way through school. I like the fact that some of what I pay in taxes goes to help others less fortunate than me. I'm glad I can help support a military so I'm not attacked in the middle of the night by a foreign enemy.

When we forget what we receive in return for our taxes, we should be thankful. If you make less than 250,000 dollars, you end up getting more than you give. I think William Raspberry commented on that in an editorial many years ago.

Would you rather have no public schools, no roads, no nothing?

I like interstates myself.

 

For all the slavery apologists, the point is that the word for enslavers is "andrapodistes," which more accurately means "one who unjustly reduces free men to slavery, as well as one who steals slaves and sells them" according to Thayer's. If these slaves were once free and Americans bought them, then they are violating God's command. And this is what was going on prior to the Civil War.

 

In what sense does one justly reduce free men to slavery?