-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
So is it a curse of God to have women rule?
- Thread starter John3v36
- Start date
A man can't even rebuke the sins within the church without being black balled. Cowards hiding behind the pulpit. The body of Christ is in dire straights!!
Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
So if I take your answer right is it a curse of God to have women rule.Originally posted by Glory2God:
There is a godly order to things. God first, husband the head of the wife, children in subjection to parents in the Lord. When God's people rebel, things go in reverse and the end is destruction. Churches have women userping the authority of man. Man userps the Holy Ghost(bible correcting)then the kids go nuts as a result. Bringing the world into the church(Rock n Roll, skimpy clothing, despising reproof and correction)It' running rampant throughout the churches. God help us!!!
A man can't even rebuke the sins within the church without being black balled. Cowards hiding behind the pulpit. The body of Christ is in dire straights!!
Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
It is, at best, a sign that the the church or society has wandered from its moorings.
tamborine lady
Active Member
It depends on what they are ruling over. If they are running the church, that is not good.
As is shown in Proverbs 31, if she is in charge of the home, thats a different matter.
So lets not relegate them to wearing Burkas like in Afghanistan.
Working for Jesus,
Tam
what about government? it seems in the contect of the passage it could be talking about government.Originally posted by tamborine lady:
It depends on what they are ruling over. If they are running the church, that is not good.
As is shown in Proverbs 31, if she is in charge of the home, thats a different matter.
So lets not relegate them to wearing Burkas like in Afghanistan.
Working for Jesus,
Tam
I wonder if there is a place to draw a line between ruleing and leading. Some women I know would seem to make good leaders in a church setting, but not "ruleing"/pastoring the church. But then agian I feel there are some men though that should not be put in ruleing positions in a church either. I don't mean that to sound disrespectful, but as I have seen on other topics when certian high profile people (in the church community) come up in a topic and all the dirt that comes out about such high profile people... I ask myself how come people still follow or let said person rule them?
BTW, Since we are on this topic and it might come up...
In the OT in the story of Deborah and Barak, even though she was in somewhat of a position of leading, I realize that it was still God who was acually leading. Deborah was yeilded to God and was being obediant therefore I believe thats why she was used.
Music4Him
BTW, Since we are on this topic and it might come up...
In the OT in the story of Deborah and Barak, even though she was in somewhat of a position of leading, I realize that it was still God who was acually leading. Deborah was yeilded to God and was being obediant therefore I believe thats why she was used.
Music4Him
tragic_pizza
New Member
I cannot imagine why it would be a bad idea to have women in positions of church leadership. Paul made it a point in his letters to thank many active women, many of whom had churches meeting in their homes. A woman was the first to see the resurrected Christ.
One verse, taken out of its historical context, is hardly a firm foundation upon which to build doctrine - especially doctrine which is used to condemn others.
One verse, taken out of its historical context, is hardly a firm foundation upon which to build doctrine - especially doctrine which is used to condemn others.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
In many churches, men won't step up and teach classes, etc. The Bible says...
Luke 19:37 Then, as He was now drawing near the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works they had seen, 38 saying: "'Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!' Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!" 39 And some of the Pharisees called to Him from the crowd, "Teacher, rebuke Your disciples." 40 But He answered and said to them, "I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out."
When men won't teach the teen boys or take their spiritual place in our churches... women step in out of necessity. I think this is a case of 'if the men don't speak up, the women cry out'. It's not right.... but the guilt falls on the men.
Luke 19:37 Then, as He was now drawing near the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works they had seen, 38 saying: "'Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!' Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!" 39 And some of the Pharisees called to Him from the crowd, "Teacher, rebuke Your disciples." 40 But He answered and said to them, "I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out."
When men won't teach the teen boys or take their spiritual place in our churches... women step in out of necessity. I think this is a case of 'if the men don't speak up, the women cry out'. It's not right.... but the guilt falls on the men.
tragic_pizza
New Member
Scripturally speaking, the guilt always falls on the man.
I agree with that Diane.
But also to me (and this is my opinion) why can't a woman give her testimony in a during a church service or possibly preach one service (without being the ordained minister on the church) I would not see this as upsurping authority over a man? I know that churches have guest speakers but what concerns me is not too many women ar given the oppertunity? I looked at the stats....and women out number the men, it just seems to me there would be more women involved church operation and positions (as tragic_ pointed out about Paul) and also in upper goverment offices?
But also to me (and this is my opinion) why can't a woman give her testimony in a during a church service or possibly preach one service (without being the ordained minister on the church) I would not see this as upsurping authority over a man? I know that churches have guest speakers but what concerns me is not too many women ar given the oppertunity? I looked at the stats....and women out number the men, it just seems to me there would be more women involved church operation and positions (as tragic_ pointed out about Paul) and also in upper goverment offices?
tragic_pizza
New Member
The easy answer for me is "fear." The men in church leadership fear losing power over the church. I truly hope that the easy answer is not the correct one, but I don't know.
Paul made it a point to thank many active women, but how many are mentioned as being in leadership in the church? Zero. How many times does God have to say something to make it true? And how is the verse (I Tim. 2:11-14, actually more than one verse) taken out of historical context? Adam was still created first in any context in any culture and Eve was still deceived while Adam was not - true in any context, in any culture. News flash - God created men and women different on purpose. The only thing out of historical context is the belief that women can, indeed, function in church leadership. This was unknown to orthodox Christianity for the better part of 20 centuries.
I also have to disagree with Diane. If a man doesn't do his job that doesn't make it right for a woman to step in, and noone is ever responsible for someone else's sin. Check out the flip side of the coin. Maybe if some of the loud, pushy women in our churches would sit down and be quiet, their men would do their jobs.
Paul made it a point to thank many active women, but how many are mentioned as being in leadership in the church? Zero. How many times does God have to say something to make it true? And how is the verse (I Tim. 2:11-14, actually more than one verse) taken out of historical context? Adam was still created first in any context in any culture and Eve was still deceived while Adam was not - true in any context, in any culture. News flash - God created men and women different on purpose. The only thing out of historical context is the belief that women can, indeed, function in church leadership. This was unknown to orthodox Christianity for the better part of 20 centuries.
I also have to disagree with Diane. If a man doesn't do his job that doesn't make it right for a woman to step in, and noone is ever responsible for someone else's sin. Check out the flip side of the coin. Maybe if some of the loud, pushy women in our churches would sit down and be quiet, their men would do their jobs. </font>[/QUOTE]Deborah understood this she got Barak to lead she would not do it with out Barak. Now Barak had to have Deborah come along alike a mom-moms boy but it was Barak who lead not Deborah, Barak did.
tragic_pizza
New Member
The 1 Timothy verse refers to qualifications of church leaders. The verse I was referring to is in Corinthians, and is iirc the only place women are told to refrain from taking an active role in worship services.
I'm not even going to dignify your "pushy women" comment.
I'm not even going to dignify your "pushy women" comment.
The bottom line is that Paul did thank women who "worked" in service for the church, but was very clear that leaders must be men. PERIOD.
Anything else is going against what was said to the New Testament Church by God's spokesperson Paul.
This is just typical of more liberalization going on in churches today. Once the doctrines start eroding, they never quit until you have a social club that is no longer a church.
Why do you think Paul was so hard on the church at Corinth. Why do you think the letters to the Corinthian church are in the Bible. Part of the reason is to obviously let us know that "yes" the churches will do things they are not supposed to do; but to use the Bible for correction and follow the rules.
Historical context has NOTHING to do with this because Paul was laying down the rules for how the New Testament churches are to behave.
If we compromise on this, we will compromise on all.
Anything else is going against what was said to the New Testament Church by God's spokesperson Paul.
This is just typical of more liberalization going on in churches today. Once the doctrines start eroding, they never quit until you have a social club that is no longer a church.
Why do you think Paul was so hard on the church at Corinth. Why do you think the letters to the Corinthian church are in the Bible. Part of the reason is to obviously let us know that "yes" the churches will do things they are not supposed to do; but to use the Bible for correction and follow the rules.
Historical context has NOTHING to do with this because Paul was laying down the rules for how the New Testament churches are to behave.
If we compromise on this, we will compromise on all.