-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Sola scriptura
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
Christforums
Active Member
1. Of the Holy Scriptures:
thewestminsterstandard.org
The Westminster Confession
The Westminster Confession of Faith (1646-1647) with Scripture Proofs
thewestminsterstandard.org
From the 1689 Baptist Confession 1:1.
The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience.
2 Tim. 3:15–17; Is. 8:20; Luke 16:29,31; Eph. 2:20.
The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience.
2 Tim. 3:15–17; Is. 8:20; Luke 16:29,31; Eph. 2:20.
The Reformers advocated “sola scriptura” [Scripture alone]. Matthew Barrett affirmed that “sola Scriptura means that only Scripture, because it is God’s inspired Word, is our inerrant authority” (God’s Word Alone, p. 24). Matthew Barrett added: “Because inerrancy is a biblical corollary and consequence of divine inspiration—inseparably connected and intertwined—it is a necessary component to sola Scriptura. The God of truth has breathed out his Word of truth.” (p. 25). Matthew Barrett observed: “Sola Scriptura must mean that Scripture is the sole and final inerrant source of authority” (p. 293).
In Article VII entitled “The sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures to be the only rule of faith,” the 1561 Belgic Confession stated: “We believe those Holy Scriptures fully contain the will of God, and that whatsoever man ought to believe unto salvation is sufficiently taught therein. For since the whole manner of worship which God requires of us is written in them at large, it is unlawful for any one, though an apostle, to teach otherwise than we are now taught in Holy Scriptures: ‘nay though it were an angel from heaven,’ as the apostle Paul says. For since it is forbidden to ‘add unto or take away anything from the Word of God,’ it does thereby evidently appear that the doctrine thereof is most perfect and complete in all respects” (Dennison, Reformed Confessions, Vol. 2, pp. 427-428).
The 1646 Westminster Confession of Faith stated: “The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed and obeyed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man or church, but wholly upon God (who is truth itself), the author thereof; and therefore it is to be received, because it is the word of God” (Confession, p. 12).
In Article VII entitled “The sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures to be the only rule of faith,” the 1561 Belgic Confession stated: “We believe those Holy Scriptures fully contain the will of God, and that whatsoever man ought to believe unto salvation is sufficiently taught therein. For since the whole manner of worship which God requires of us is written in them at large, it is unlawful for any one, though an apostle, to teach otherwise than we are now taught in Holy Scriptures: ‘nay though it were an angel from heaven,’ as the apostle Paul says. For since it is forbidden to ‘add unto or take away anything from the Word of God,’ it does thereby evidently appear that the doctrine thereof is most perfect and complete in all respects” (Dennison, Reformed Confessions, Vol. 2, pp. 427-428).
The 1646 Westminster Confession of Faith stated: “The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed and obeyed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man or church, but wholly upon God (who is truth itself), the author thereof; and therefore it is to be received, because it is the word of God” (Confession, p. 12).
The key word is "sufficient." The Scriptures are sufficient for us to know the mind and the will of God and we don't need anything else. To call the Scriptures "inerrant" or "infallible" and "our supreme authority" is fine and true, but those terms still leave open the possibility of something else to supplement them. 2 Tim. 3:17 speaks of the Scripture being 'useful ....... that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.'
Many Bible-believing churches in Britain are affiliated to the Fellowship of Independent Evangelical Churches (FIEC). Its 'Basis of Faith' declares: The Bible alone speaks with final authority and is always sufficient for all matters of belief and practice.
Protestantism added and took away from scripture from its inception, by subjecting it to each man’s private interpretation.
Scripture is sufficient if it is rightly interpreted by Apostolic Tradition, but outside that, it is dangerous to be within 50 feet of it closed.
37818
Well-Known Member
Just because something is written [script, scripture] does not cause it to be God's word. Yes, God's written word being Holy Scripture is typically simply just called scripture.
What is accepted to be God's word has accepted authority as such.
The Scripture came to be through the Catholic Church, it was Jesus authoritive Church that established it.
If the scripture fell from the sky, you might have a point.
The Catholic Church has always stood as Authority for the Scriptures, telling us what is the Word of God in the first place.
All Scripture did not come through the Roman Catholic Church, which did not exist when the New Testament was completed. The Roman Catholic Church is not the authority for the Scriptures and is not an authority over the Scriptures.
Rome has replaced Holy Spirit Illumination with false teachings and dogmas of Catholics Traditions
Indeed, as the complete inspired canon of OT scriptures already established by time of Christ, and the inspired NT canon of scriptures were completed and written by end of first century
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Sigh, are we really going to beat the “Rome is the author of the Bible“-“No it is not” dead horse AGAIN? 
Count me out.
On the topic of Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone), I was always very fond of the expression “norma normans non normata” [more Latin] that roughly means “the rule of rules that has no rule” or “the measure of measures that has no measure”. It refers to Scripture as the standard against which anything and everything else must be measured. Like the “official meter” that defines the unit of metric distance and that anything claiming to be an accurate “meter” is compared against, the Holy Scripture is the official “rule” or “measure” of absolute divine truth. Anything claiming to be Divine Truth is measured against the absolute standard of Scripture. On the other hand, there is NOTHING against which Scripture can be measured. There is no other source of God-breathed truth!
That is why such extreme proof was required to affirm the inspiration of the words of scripture. Could anyone that followed Moses out of Egypt, who stood at the mountain as Moses went up, why lived 40 years in the shadow of the pillar and the cloud, who saw the fall of Jericho, doubt that the words Moses wrote were God-breathed? So, too, the yardstick for the prophets was TRUTH or Death … with the words of Moses serving as the “norma normans non normata” for what came after. The extraordinary words of Jesus, recorded in the Gospels and apostolic letters, were affirmed by the “norma normans” of the OT prophecy fulfilled, the words of OT scripture ‘rightly divided’ and the extraordinary proof of Jesus resurrection from the dead!
Each and every of the 66 books accepted stood the test and passed the “God-breathed” test of the “norma normans non normata” of the scripture that had come before it. Each of the Apocryphal books rejected failed that same test. It is no accident that even Jerome, the translator that created the Vulgate Bible which included the Apocryphal books, was able to apply the same “norma normans” and arrived at the same list of God-breathed books (an non-God-breathed books) as later Protestant reformers.
However, we have minimal need to check new books to see if canon needs to be reopened. Yet a “norma normans non normata” is still vital in our Christian life. We are called to “Test the Spirits” and we hear all sorts of “truths” and “wisdom” from various teachers and preachers that we encounter and we may even have wonderful new ideas all on our own … all of these could use an absolute and immovable yardstick of TRUTH that we can hold them up against for comparison … to confirm or deny the alleged truth. Fortunately for us, God has provided His Word (printed) and His Spirit (living inside us to guide us in His Word). Thus we have a “norma normans non normata” to measure human ideas against.
That is why I am such a fan of ‘Sola Scriptura’.
Count me out.
On the topic of Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone), I was always very fond of the expression “norma normans non normata” [more Latin] that roughly means “the rule of rules that has no rule” or “the measure of measures that has no measure”. It refers to Scripture as the standard against which anything and everything else must be measured. Like the “official meter” that defines the unit of metric distance and that anything claiming to be an accurate “meter” is compared against, the Holy Scripture is the official “rule” or “measure” of absolute divine truth. Anything claiming to be Divine Truth is measured against the absolute standard of Scripture. On the other hand, there is NOTHING against which Scripture can be measured. There is no other source of God-breathed truth!
That is why such extreme proof was required to affirm the inspiration of the words of scripture. Could anyone that followed Moses out of Egypt, who stood at the mountain as Moses went up, why lived 40 years in the shadow of the pillar and the cloud, who saw the fall of Jericho, doubt that the words Moses wrote were God-breathed? So, too, the yardstick for the prophets was TRUTH or Death … with the words of Moses serving as the “norma normans non normata” for what came after. The extraordinary words of Jesus, recorded in the Gospels and apostolic letters, were affirmed by the “norma normans” of the OT prophecy fulfilled, the words of OT scripture ‘rightly divided’ and the extraordinary proof of Jesus resurrection from the dead!
Each and every of the 66 books accepted stood the test and passed the “God-breathed” test of the “norma normans non normata” of the scripture that had come before it. Each of the Apocryphal books rejected failed that same test. It is no accident that even Jerome, the translator that created the Vulgate Bible which included the Apocryphal books, was able to apply the same “norma normans” and arrived at the same list of God-breathed books (an non-God-breathed books) as later Protestant reformers.
However, we have minimal need to check new books to see if canon needs to be reopened. Yet a “norma normans non normata” is still vital in our Christian life. We are called to “Test the Spirits” and we hear all sorts of “truths” and “wisdom” from various teachers and preachers that we encounter and we may even have wonderful new ideas all on our own … all of these could use an absolute and immovable yardstick of TRUTH that we can hold them up against for comparison … to confirm or deny the alleged truth. Fortunately for us, God has provided His Word (printed) and His Spirit (living inside us to guide us in His Word). Thus we have a “norma normans non normata” to measure human ideas against.
That is why I am such a fan of ‘Sola Scriptura’.
Christforums
Active Member
If G-d cannot be taken for his word, then why take the word of any man in his name? Apostolic succession claims the succession of the apostles, and the apostles were gifted w/ the same gift as the prophet (revelation). And gifts were granted the apostles for a time of building up the church to authenticate their office like the prophets.
I am not aware of any Scriptures suggesting the all-powerful Roman Catholic church is equal to the authority and power of G-d. Believe and be baptized for example or as Paul said, he was glad he had not baptized some of yous. That is, Paul was gifted to administer the institution of the word, but some believe and contradict the very teaching of Paul conveying to be baptized by the sole authority of the Roman Catholic church and submit to their offices of interpretation alone. And their interpretation of Scripture takes precedence over the clear passages of Scripture.
Needlessly said, this problem hadn't surfaced until the NT. Who would of ever of thought because the emperor of Rome called the churches to convene in Nicaea that Rome the message boy would claim authority over all churches through the emperor of Rome.
There is no new revelation, the gifts of the apostles have ceased w/ the closing of the canon. And not continued throughout the millenniums. Some Roman Catholics, well, Roman Catholics are as bad as Pentecostals. There is no new revelation only the office of illumination and the best illuminator of Scripture is Scripture, for the Chrisitan that entails Sola Scriptura and Christology.
Go home Roman Catholic fan boys. The embers of your church's faith in G-d have been replaced by the all-powerful Roman Catholic church. A church full of apostates by the principle of Sola Scriptura.
Throughout history especially concerning the teachings of Augustine the Catholic church has sided for and against Augustine. If the teachings of Augustine were for example biblical then the Roman Catholic church since it claims solidarity has leaned away from orthodoxy. No Prophet has ever contradicted a prior Prophet because no Prophet speaks of himself but is used an instrument (inspired) by G-d. And because G-d cannot contradict himself then no prophet can contradict a former prophet. The Roman Catholic church was a walking contradiction until abandoning the very standard by which its incoherent and contradictory theology was deemed apostate, appeal to the apostate Roman Catholics and then there are no contradictions by their standard of orthodoxy.
I am not aware of any Scriptures suggesting the all-powerful Roman Catholic church is equal to the authority and power of G-d. Believe and be baptized for example or as Paul said, he was glad he had not baptized some of yous. That is, Paul was gifted to administer the institution of the word, but some believe and contradict the very teaching of Paul conveying to be baptized by the sole authority of the Roman Catholic church and submit to their offices of interpretation alone. And their interpretation of Scripture takes precedence over the clear passages of Scripture.
Needlessly said, this problem hadn't surfaced until the NT. Who would of ever of thought because the emperor of Rome called the churches to convene in Nicaea that Rome the message boy would claim authority over all churches through the emperor of Rome.
There is no new revelation, the gifts of the apostles have ceased w/ the closing of the canon. And not continued throughout the millenniums. Some Roman Catholics, well, Roman Catholics are as bad as Pentecostals. There is no new revelation only the office of illumination and the best illuminator of Scripture is Scripture, for the Chrisitan that entails Sola Scriptura and Christology.
Go home Roman Catholic fan boys. The embers of your church's faith in G-d have been replaced by the all-powerful Roman Catholic church. A church full of apostates by the principle of Sola Scriptura.
Throughout history especially concerning the teachings of Augustine the Catholic church has sided for and against Augustine. If the teachings of Augustine were for example biblical then the Roman Catholic church since it claims solidarity has leaned away from orthodoxy. No Prophet has ever contradicted a prior Prophet because no Prophet speaks of himself but is used an instrument (inspired) by G-d. And because G-d cannot contradict himself then no prophet can contradict a former prophet. The Roman Catholic church was a walking contradiction until abandoning the very standard by which its incoherent and contradictory theology was deemed apostate, appeal to the apostate Roman Catholics and then there are no contradictions by their standard of orthodoxy.
Last edited:
37818
Well-Known Member
I do not agree. Holy Scripture was Holy Scriptures when God gave it to be written.
Sigh, are we really going to beat the “Rome is the author of the Bible“-“No it is not” dead horse AGAIN?
Count me out.
On the topic of Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone), I was always very fond of the expression “norma normans non normata” [more Latin] that roughly means “the rule of rules that has no rule” or “the measure of measures that has no measure”. It refers to Scripture as the standard against which anything and everything else must be measured. Like the “official meter” that defines the unit of metric distance and that anything claiming to be an accurate “meter” is compared against, the Holy Scripture is the official “rule” or “measure” of absolute divine truth. Anything claiming to be Divine Truth is measured against the absolute standard of Scripture. On the other hand, there is NOTHING against which Scripture can be measured. There is no other source of God-breathed truth!
That is why such extreme proof was required to affirm the inspiration of the words of scripture. Could anyone that followed Moses out of Egypt, who stood at the mountain as Moses went up, why lived 40 years in the shadow of the pillar and the cloud, who saw the fall of Jericho, doubt that the words Moses wrote were God-breathed? So, too, the yardstick for the prophets was TRUTH or Death … with the words of Moses serving as the “norma normans non normata” for what came after. The extraordinary words of Jesus, recorded in the Gospels and apostolic letters, were affirmed by the “norma normans” of the OT prophecy fulfilled, the words of OT scripture ‘rightly divided’ and the extraordinary proof of Jesus resurrection from the dead!
Each and every of the 66 books accepted stood the test and passed the “God-breathed” test of the “norma normans non normata” of the scripture that had come before it. Each of the Apocryphal books rejected failed that same test. It is no accident that even Jerome, the translator that created the Vulgate Bible which included the Apocryphal books, was able to apply the same “norma normans” and arrived at the same list of God-breathed books (an non-God-breathed books) as later Protestant reformers.
However, we have minimal need to check new books to see if canon needs to be reopened. Yet a “norma normans non normata” is still vital in our Christian life. We are called to “Test the Spirits” and we hear all sorts of “truths” and “wisdom” from various teachers and preachers that we encounter and we may even have wonderful new ideas all on our own … all of these could use an absolute and immovable yardstick of TRUTH that we can hold them up against for comparison … to confirm or deny the alleged truth. Fortunately for us, God has provided His Word (printed) and His Spirit (living inside us to guide us in His Word). Thus we have a “norma normans non normata” to measure human ideas against.
That is why I am such a fan of ‘Sola Scriptura’.
The measure of each book was each of the Fathers handing them down from the Apostles.
The Catholic Church used the line of Tradition in determining the Canon of Scripture. Which books had been continuously used in the Church from the Apostles.
It was a lineage of custody and use as handed down Father to father, Bishop to bishop.
There never was a 66 book Canon, the Canon was 73 books from the beginning in 382 ad when the first Bible was declared.
Your opinion is incorrect. The apostles' doctrine is found and taught in the New Testament. Bible doctrine directly from the Scriptures is not human doctrine.
Roman Catholicism attempts to add human traditions of men to Scripture.
Protestantism interprets human traditions and doctrines from scripture, Catholics simply maintain the one ancient interpretation of the scriptures from the Apostles.
Every Protestant denomination has a human founder and is based on their new and wrongful interpretations of scripture.
Incorrect. Roman Catholics did not obtain their human traditions from the apostles.
Roman Catholics have not consistently maintained the same interpretations since they have added new traditions through the years and since different Roman Catholic men will contradict other Roman Catholics in their interpretations. Roman Catholicism is based on the wrong interpretations and on adding to the Scriptures doctrines of men.