Some false views of Election examined and refuted

[Jarthur001]

Certainly Daniel is among those taken into capitivity when THE NATION of Israel was so separated from God and in such rebellion against God that they were choosing idols over the true God of Creation - the God of the Messiah.

But Daniel -- though also taken captive -- did not live APART from a strong supernatural relationship with God - in constant fellowship with God. He was not as one "ALONE on the inside with Christ on the outside knocking". Daniel was among the faithful as those of Philadelphia. He was one IN fellowship with Christ and persevering!

There is no way to bend or stretch this into "saved saints without Christ - saved and yet separated from Christ".

No amount of scripture wrenching and twisting in Heb 12 or in 2 Sam 7 is going to get you there.

in Christ,

Bob

What more reasoning apart from the text?

Hebrews stands on its own.

Heb 12: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Rev 3 stands on its own...

Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;


Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.


Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:


Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.


Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob said "When I point out that there is no salvation apart from Christ and that this point comes as a shock to many Calvinists -- Jarthur001 responds with the apparently vaccuous"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarthur001
What is shocking, is that you believe salvation can be bought by man.

Bob responds

"salvation bought by man"???

Were in the world did THAT come from???

Hint: this would be a good time to show such a quote from me.

Jarthur001
If salvation is the subject as you claim...we must deal with exhortation in counsel found in the text.

indeed - we must OPEN the door and have Christ COME IN -- for we can not have salvation APART from Christ.

We can not remain ALONE on the inside APART from Christ and call that "salvation".

Perhaps we are finally finding a point of common ground here.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Jarthur001 questions whether this is salvation --



Isaiah 55
1 ""Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.
2 ""Why do you spend money for what is not bread, And your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, And delight yourself in abundance.
3 "" Incline your ear and come to Me. Listen, that you may live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you, According to the faithful mercies shown to David.


Rev 3
14 ""To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:
15 " I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot;[/b] I wish that you were cold or hot.
16 "So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

17 "Because you say, "" I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,'' and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

19 " Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.


And so because man-made tradition will not allow this to be the obvious call to be saved that it is - one goes to "imagining" salvation as being "naked and without the robe of Christ" covering you and "ALONE without Christ" and having Christ on the outside knocking WAITING for you to open the door.

How much better to simply admit that NOT having the robe of Christ's righteousness and being ALONE and WITHOUT Christ - is to be WITHOUT salvation.

The Gospel promise was NEVER of the form "Good news - you can finally be ALONE and WITHOUT Christ -and WITHOUT the robe of His righteousness covering you" RATHER that is the LOST condition of the sinner even BEFORE coming to Christ!

Notice that in Isaiah 55 they are "buying without money" and they buy simply by choosing to "listen" to the voice of Christ!!

Hint: "God so LOVED the World" -- the fact that He LOVES us did not make us SAVED - He had to also die for us AND then to DRAW us unto Him and then "Whosoever BELIEVES on him should not perish but have everlasting life" the fact that God, seeks after and saves the lost - even those who are in church that have drifted away from Christ -- and are now once again lost -- is not a sign that they never were lost!

in Christ,

Bob