Some questions for dispensationalists

[swaimj]

My intent is not to debate in this thread but to learn what the other positions teach concerning this and other passages.
So I don't want to abandon that initial goal by arguing over this passage. I did look back to verse 12-13 and think that perhaps the "all these people" mentioned in verse 13 are the descendents of Abraham mentioned in verse 12, thus it would be Jews who were looking for a heavenly home.

Verse 12 does speak of Abraham's descendants, but verse 13 says "these all died". Are you saying that all of Abraham's descendants have died? If not, then the antecedent to "these all died" is not Abraham's descendents, but the previous OT saints named in the chapter.

As for debating, this is a discussion board and you have brought up an interesting discussion. I do not understand why you protest that you don't want to debate it, yet you continue to respond to what is said with arguments against what is said. It appears that you do indeed want to debate it since in fact you are debating it. Debating it is fine with me, but it is disingenuous of you to protest debate while simutaneously engaging in it.

So are you a dispensationalist who believes that both Jew and Gentile will receive a heavenly home, as opposed to skypair's belief that the Jews will dwell on the new earth and the church in the heavenly city of New Jerusalem. Or have I completely misunderstood you?

As a dispensationalists I distinguish different ways that God deals with different people at different times. As I understand the scriptures, Jews prior to Christ's death were given earthly promises. God will fulfill those promises as he gave them to those faithful Jews. Since Christ's death, God has established the church which is made up of Jews and Gentiles who place faith in Christ. God's promises to these believers are found in the NT and they differ from promises made to believers in OT times. In the future, and this is where Romans 9-11 comes in, God will again deal with Israel as a nation and he will fulfill his promises made to OT Jews and to Jews who accept Christ as Messiah at the time he deals with the nation of Israel again.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Is this clearer?

If the rapture2 would be tomorrow;
the Jews would be able to restore the
daily sacrifice within a week.
It isn't necessary to build the temple, which
houses the holy of holies and the holy place
to have the daily sin offering for Yisrael.

Messiah, when He comes is
supposted by 21st century (2001-2100) Rabbi
Teachers to do three things:

1. bring peace to Yisrael
2. restore the daily sacrifice
3. plan & rebuild the temple

Bringing peace to Yisrael will allow the
Jews access to the now dominated by Muslims
top of the Temple mount. Then the daily sacrifice
can be restored and the temple can be rebuilt
(it well may take 3½-years to complete).

Of course, we who understand about the stories
of the Antichrist see how the reverse is true to
the non-Messanic Jews:
whoever does these will be seen to be
by the non-messanic Jews as the Messiah
but will really be the Antichrist (instead of Christ).

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Verse 12 does speak of Abraham's descendants, but verse 13 says "these all died". Are you saying that all of Abraham's descendants have died? If not, then the antecedent to "these all died" is not Abraham's descendents, but the previous OT saints named in the chapter.

I'm not sure, which is why I'm asking questions.

As for debating, this is a discussion board and you have brought up an interesting discussion. I do not understand why you protest that you don't want to debate it, yet you continue to respond to what is said with arguments against what is said. It appears that you do indeed want to debate it since in fact you are debating it. Debating it is fine with me, but it is disingenuous of you to protest debate while simutaneously engaging in it.

I'm trying to ascertain how the dispensationalists interpret certain passages of Scripture. Heb. 11 has been one that I have not understood could fit into the system. I don't understand all the answers that have been provided and was trying to ask some clarifying questions by discussing certain phrases.

As a dispensationalists I distinguish different ways that God deals with different people at different times. As I understand the scriptures, Jews prior to Christ's death were given earthly promises. God will fulfill those promises as he gave them to those faithful Jews. Since Christ's death, God has established the church which is made up of Jews and Gentiles who place faith in Christ. God's promises to these believers are found in the NT and they differ from promises made to believers in OT times. In the future, and this is where Romans 9-11 comes in, God will again deal with Israel as a nation and he will fulfill his promises made to OT Jews and to Jews who accept Christ as Messiah at the time he deals with the nation of Israel again.

Thank you for explaining your position.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Is this clearer?

If the rapture2 would be tomorrow;
the Jews would be able to restore the
daily sacrifice within a week.
It isn't necessary to build the temple, which
houses the holy of holies and the holy place
to have the daily sin offering for Yisrael.

Messiah, when He comes is
supposted by 21st century (2001-2100) Rabbi
Teachers to do three things:

1. bring peace to Yisrael
2. restore the daily sacrifice
3. plan & rebuild the temple

Bringing peace to Yisrael will allow the
Jews access to the now dominated by Muslims
top of the Temple mount. Then the daily sacrifice
can be restored and the temple can be rebuilt
(it well may take 3½-years to complete).

Of course, we who understand about the stories
of the Antichrist see how the reverse is true to
the non-Messanic Jews:
whoever does these will be seen to be
by the non-messanic Jews as the Messiah
but will really be the Antichrist (instead of Christ).

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[skypair]

Isa,

Do you have any other questions for me? or am I just confusing you more? :saint:

skypair

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Isa,

Do you have any other questions for me? or am I just confusing you more? :saint:

skypair

I'm not confused. Thanks for checking.