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some Questions on the Person of Christ

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SATS PROF, Jul 25, 2023.

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  1. SATS PROF

    SATS PROF Member
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    This is my favorite doctrinal subject, so I will, without upsetting some by providing reading material- for what sane person wants to read 50 pages or learn the meaning of theological terms which are NOT, like "Trinity", found in the Bible ?

    If you are really interested in the Person of Christ, possible you will answer with your view on a question. If you are not interested, then, indeed, I have wrongly overestimated my understand of this place. My mistake-sorry.

    1. Does the name"Son of God" indicate that the human nature of Christ is eternally role subordinate to the Father? YES, Grudem, NO Gregory of Nazianzus.

    2. Are there three faculties of will in God? That issue if true, supports the doctrine of the Son's eternal submission to the Father. YES, A. Strong. NO, John of Damascus..

    3. As Christ is sent by the Father, doers that mean that the Father is eternally role dominant over the Son? YES, Grudem. NO, Augustine.

    4. As the Son is seated at God's right hand, does that mean that the Son is of a lower rank in authority? YES, Dahms. NO, Murray.

    5. Since the Father creates through the Son, does that mean the Son is role subordinate? YES, Grudem. NO, Gregory of Nyssa.

    6. Does 1 Cor 11:3 teach the the Father is the authority over God the Son? YES, Ware. NO, Chemnitz.

    7. Does Philippians 2:6 mean that while Christ was in God's nature, He did not grasp at being God's equal? Yes, Burk( on the articular infinitive) . NO, Athanasius.

    8. Was Christ's divine nature confined in a body? YES, Fee. NO, Calvin.

    9. Did Christ's divine nature suffer? YES, Frame. NO, Shedd.

    10. Does Philippians 2:7 mean that Christ, upon incarnating gave up the use of any divine attribute?
    YES, Evans. NO, Jowers.

    11. Is the divine nature of Christ only that which personalizes Christ incarnate? YES, Crisp. NO, Morris.

    12. Are there two faculties of wills in Christ (human and divine) YES, Hodge. NO, Strong.

    If there are actually theologians on a forum called Baptist THEOLOGY, please consider informing us of your views on these question with evidence for your opinion. Thanks!
     
    #1 SATS PROF, Jul 25, 2023
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  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    There are at least three versions of the Biblical Trinity.

    My view is a minority view. It shares ideas with the other two views, not presented in this post.

    God's identity is in His Hebrew Name. Exodus 20:6, Exodus 3:14-15, Deuteronomy 6:4, Acts of the Apostles 17:28a.

    All three Persons, God the Father, the Son of God and Holy Spirit are the same God. So in deity there is no subordenation.

    The Son of God, on behalf of God the Father, He is the reason for there being the three distinct Persons. The Trinity has no beginnig, being that God has no beginning.

    Subordination is of the Person's not their deity.

    Yes, I did not here proved the Trinity's explanatory supporting Scriptures. Gave only these brief arguments.

    These issues go to understanding the Person of Christ.
     
    #2 37818, Jul 25, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2023
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  3. Piper

    Piper Active Member
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    I will just respond to one, #8

    HIs divine nature is God. God cannot be contained, as King Solomon said in Chronicles. So I'd agree with Calvin contra my old friend Gordon Fee.
     
    #3 Piper, Jul 25, 2023
  4. SATS PROF

    SATS PROF Member
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    +++++++++++++++++++

    I appreciate your post very much, and like you, I disagree with Grudem, House, Ware etc that God the Son is eternally subordinate.. But would you kindly explain your second to the last sentence? Blessings, Bill
     
    #4 SATS PROF, Jul 25, 2023
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  5. SATS PROF

    SATS PROF Member
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    ----------------------------------------------
    Thanks for your response. I agree with you!
     
    #5 SATS PROF, Jul 25, 2023
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Only if the second Person was always the Son can one have an eternal subordination of the Son in both directions in eternity. As God the persons are never subordinate to each other, being they are the same God.

    Post incarnation the Son is without question eternally subordinate, per 1 Corinthians 15:28 also being the Christ. As Christ He is both the Man, subordinate and being God never subordinate.

    Since I hold to eternal Sonship, I also believe in the eternal subordination. The Son is subordinate to His Father, John 5:18-19.
     
    #6 37818, Jul 25, 2023
  7. SATS PROF

    SATS PROF Member
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    ++++++++++++++
    Then, we can disagree.. I know thatfew will read, ewwill read, wll bother to look
     
    #7 SATS PROF, Jul 25, 2023
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. To be precise. How do I differ from your view?
     
    #8 37818, Jul 25, 2023
  9. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps this is not the thread in which a discussion of the eternal subordination of the Son should take place... But, the question of whether the Son is eternally subordinate to the Father" is flawed in that it seeks to require a logically flawed answer of "yes" or "no."

    The question of "what type of subordination" is being discussed matters greatly. If Jesus is ontologically subordinate to the Father, then He's probably not God... and that's a huge problem. If Jesus is economically subordinate to the Father, there's no problem.

    So, the answer should be more of a "Yes and no" answer: Jesus is economically subordinate to the Father, but not ontologically subordinate.

    The Archangel
     
    #9 The Archangel, Jul 25, 2023
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  10. SATS PROF

    SATS PROF Member
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    ryy. I messed up
    +++++++++++++

    I do not believe in eternal generation or eternal role subordination.
     
    #10 SATS PROF, Jul 25, 2023
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I also do not agree with eternal generation. The Son has always been both the Son and fully the same God with the Father.

    Now as God there is no subordination.
    But being some one with God there cannot not be some kind of subordination.

    John 1:1-2. Being the Word, twice is said to be with God. But it is also stated He is God. So He being both with God and was God. Both. As God there is no subordination.

    Again I reject the so called eternal generation.
     
    #11 37818, Jul 25, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2023
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Me.

    To get it straight.

    I see this type of reading as sheer delight and Spiritually delicious, if there is such a thing.

    Not everyone knows about an extensive articulation of what the different properties in the Eternal Godhead may be said to be, so here's this from one of my favorite and often quoted theologians, John Gill.

    He's put a lot of thought and scriptures into it, for sure.

    1. Of the Unity of God.
    2. Of a Plurality in the Godhead; or, A Trinity of Persons in the Unity of the Divine Essence.
    3. Of the Personal Relations; or, Relative Properties which Distinguish the Three Divine Persons in the Deity.
    4. Of the Distinct Personality, and Deity of the Father.
    5. Of the Distinct Personality, and Deity of the Son.
    6. Of the Distinct Personality, and Deity of the Holy Spirit.
    This numbering above should actually be #26-#31, of the list of doctrines on God covered in;

    Gill, John [1697-1771]‎ > ‎

    A Body of Doctrinal Divinity by John Gill, D.D. Volume 1

    BOOK I.

    OF GOD, HIS WORD, NAMES, NATURE, PERFECTIONS, AND PERSONS.
     
    #12 Alan Gross, Jul 26, 2023
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God the uncaused Cause.
     
    #13 37818, Jul 26, 2023
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