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Some reasons I'm a Calvinist: A Satisfied Savior

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Monergist, Apr 5, 2003.

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  1. Monergist

    Monergist New Member

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    But the LORD was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities. (Isaiah 53:10-11)

    A right view of the atonement sees a satisfied Savior. He accomplished His task in “justifying the many,” not merely in giving men an opportunity to be saved. He succeeded in “bearing their iniquities” as a guilt offering for those for whom he died, i.e., the elect. The promise was that the “good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.”

    What is the basis of His satisfaction? If He died for all, yet all are not saved, was His purpose then not frustrated? If He died for a specific group (the many) and by His death secured the salvation of those for whom He died, then His sacrifice was not in vain.

    A “satisfied savior” requires that His sacrifice be for a purpose and that the intended purpose be fulfilled. In His death He purchased the redemption of those whom the Father had given Him. No frustration, No disappointment, just pure satisfaction.

    To God alone be all glory
     
    #1 Monergist, Apr 5, 2003
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Amen. [​IMG]
     
    #2 KenH, Apr 5, 2003
  3. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    Non sequitur. And "the many" does not exclude "all," since "all" would be considered as "many." His death secured the salvation for those who believed in Him.

    And his purpose was to be a sacrifice for all men. His purpose was, indeed, fulfilled.
     
    #3 ScottEmerson, Apr 6, 2003
  4. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Scott,

    So, what you are saying here is that all will be saved regardless of what they believe?

    Why do I say this? Because if Jesus died as a penal-substitute for all men, then there is no sin-debt left for those men to pay. Therefore, according to you, all will be saved.

    How do you respond to this?

    Blessings,

    Archangel
     
    #4 The Archangel, Apr 6, 2003
  5. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    So, what you are saying here is that all will be saved regardless of what they believe?

    Why do I say this? Because if Jesus died as a penal-substitute for all men, then there is no sin-debt left for those men to pay. Therefore, according to you, all will be saved.

    How do you respond to this?

    Blessings,

    Archangel     </font>[/QUOTE]In OT times, the high priest made a sacrifice for all of Israel, yet not Israel were "saved," as they did not accept the sacrifice, since they did not personally ask for forgiveness of sin. Their sins were not considered forgiven.

    In our time, Jesus Christ made the sacrifice for all of humanity. Not all humanity is saved as they do not accept the sacrifice. Their sins are not considered forgiven.
     
    #5 ScottEmerson, Apr 6, 2003
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    But as we know from the book of Hebrews, the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sin. Jesus' sacrifice actually removes the sins of His people as He bore them Himself.

    Anyone whose sins Jesus bore cannot suffer punishment for them as to do so would mean that God would be punishing for the same sins twice. God is just and He will not do such a thing.
     
    #6 KenH, Apr 6, 2003
  7. Pastor J.R. Hampton

    Pastor J.R. Hampton Guest

    Ken,

    You wrote:
    "Anyone whose sins Jesus bore cannot suffer punishment for them as to do so would mean that God would be punishing for the same sins twice. God is just and He will not do such a thing."

    I agree with this. Though I don't necessarily identify myself as a 5 point Calvinist, it just doesn't seem right that Jesus died for the sins of those who God knows would not believe otherwise they would pay for sins that were already atoned for. Right?

    Does anyone on either side of this issue really disagree with that? :confused:
     
    #7 Pastor J.R. Hampton, Apr 6, 2003
  8. William C

    William C New Member

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    I believe that Jesus' blood atoned for the sins of those who believe, so there is no reason for either side to argue that the other side believes sins are paid for twice.
     
    #8 William C, Apr 6, 2003
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    A question for clarification, please. [​IMG] Do you also believe that Jesus' blood atoned for the sins of those who will not believe?
     
    #9 KenH, Apr 6, 2003
  10. William C

    William C New Member

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    A question for clarification, please. [​IMG] Do you also believe that Jesus' blood atoned for the sins of those who will not believe? </font>[/QUOTE]No. Faith is the means by which the blood is applied.
     
    #10 William C, Apr 6, 2003
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Good. So we agree on the Calvinistic doctrine of particular redemption.

    Amen. [​IMG]
     
    #11 KenH, Apr 6, 2003
  12. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    Sigh...
     
    #12 ScottEmerson, Apr 6, 2003
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why you would sigh, Scott. :confused: Brother Bill and I both agree that Jesus did not atone for the sins of those who do not believe. Which is precisely what the doctrine of particular redemption teaches. I know this doesn't mean that Brother Bill has accepted the doctrines of grace en masse, but I rejoice that we have found a point of agreement concerning the precious doctrine of the atonement of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. [​IMG]
     
    #13 KenH, Apr 7, 2003
  14. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    I don't know why you would sigh, Scott. :confused: Brother Bill and I both agree that Jesus did not atone for the sins of those who do not believe. Which is precisely what the doctrine of particular redemption teaches. I know this doesn't mean that Brother Bill has accepted the doctrines of grace en masse, but I rejoice that we have found a point of agreement concerning the precious doctrine of the atonement of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]Read again what particular atonement means, and get back to us, okay?
     
    #14 ScottEmerson, Apr 7, 2003
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