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Featured Some Singular Readings In The NIV...

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Jul 16, 2017.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    ...Or, nearly singular in some cases. Just about all English Bible versions don't render these passages the unique way the NIV does. I'll be doing my snip routine.

    Psalm 93:1
    "...    the world is established, firm and secure."

    Psalm 107:2
    "Let the redeemed of the LORD tell their story --"

    Pro. 18:10
    "The name of the LORD is a fortified tower..."
    [The NLT has "strong fortress",but the rest of the versions have simply --"strong tower."]

    Ro. 10:4
    "Christ is the culmination of the law...."
    [The EXB and ISV have the same.]

    1 Cor. 13:3
    "...give my body over to hardship..."

    1 Cor. 13:10
    "but when completeness comes...."
    [ Most translations have "complete"]

    Ephesians 5:19
    "...songs from the Spirit...."

    Phil. 2:6
    "...used to his own advantage."
    [The GWT and HCSB have something like the above. Most versions have "to be grasped."
    A number have it rendered as "to be exploited."]

    Phil. 4:13
    "I can do all this..."
    The CEB has "all these things." Most translations have "I can do all things...]
     
    #1 Rippon, Jul 16, 2017
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Sometimes a particular translation will "hit the nail on the head" and provide a singular translation that correctly conveys the message while deviating from tradition. Every once in a while even the dreaded NIV accomplishes that feat. But not at Proverbs 18:10.

    YLT provides a good start: A tower of strength is the name of Jehovah, Into it the righteous runneth, and is set on high.
    Next, here is the LEB: A tower of strength is the name of Yahweh; into him the righteous will run and be safe.

    So the first observation is the order of the phrases, The name is a strong tower verses a tower of strength is the name. So rather than defining what the name of the Lord is (a tower) the actual message is we can be strengthen as we rely upon the LORD.

    So a better translation would be: A tower of strength is the name of the LORD, to Him the righteous one runs and is set safely on high.

    An attribute of the LORD is His protection for the righteous one that runs to Him (putting complete faith in His provision of deliverance). Being set on high means to be put where the threat cannot gain access. The NET clarifies this by "being set safely on high.
     
    #2 Van, Sep 3, 2017
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Be careful Van-man. I have a feeling that many here dread your posts.
    NIV : "The name of the LORD is a fortified tower; the righteous run to it and are safe."
    The phrase "The name of the Lord" is not unique with the NIV. The majority of translations start that way.
    The conjunction "so" means as a consequence or therefore. Did you prove anything? No.
    NET : "The name of the Lord is like a strong tower; the righteous person runs to it and is set safely on high."

    The simplified versions such as the ERV, EXB, GNT,NIrV and NCV use the word "like" --but it's not necessary for those with a higher level of English.

    The NET's "is set safely on high" is workable. And it is in the minority of translations.

    Along with the NIV, I appreciate the reading found in the REB :

    "The name of the LORD is a tower of strength, where the righteous may run for refuge."
     
    #3 Rippon, Sep 3, 2017
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I may not have shown you that the phrase order changes the message but discerning readers can tell the difference from the name being a tower (exclusive implication) and describing one of many attributes, a tower of strength is the name.

    Next, does the righteous one run to the tower or to the Lord? And the statement is emphatic, its not may run, but "to Him the righteous one runs. "Like" also found in the translations needs to be in italics if inserted.

    Clearly, a better translation of the message is "A tower of strength is the name of the LORD, to Him the righteous one runs and is set safely on high."
     
    #4 Van, Sep 3, 2017
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Romans 10:4 presents an ambiguous message. Here is the NIV translation:
    So one idea for "telos - G5056" is culmination or fulfillment The NIV translators have adopted this view.. Most other translator's translate "telos" as end. However a third option is found in the Lexicon, where the idea is to set out for a definite point or goal. The law is a tutor that leads us to Christ.

    Now the NASB has:
    What is the idea being communicated by the phrase "for righteousness?" Could it be Christ's bestowal of righteousness is the goal of the Law to everyone who believers? How about "The goal of the Law is Christ's bestowal of righteousness to everyone who believers?"

    That would indeed be a singular translation, but would it be better than all the rest?
     
    #5 Van, Sep 4, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Lets consider 1 Corinthians 13:10:
    10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. (NASB)

    On Biblehub, about 20 versions have perfect or perfection, whereas 4 have complete, and the NIV is all alone with completeness.

    The Greek word is "telelos - G5046" and refers to the end state of development. Thus a full grown tree rather than one still lacking its full growth. Here the idea is the end of the age, when Jesus returns. The three most common choices for translation in the NASB are perfect, complete and mature. Today, in the church age, we have a partial understanding, but when Christ returns and we are gloried physically, we will be fully developed, complete, and the things needed in our incomplete status will fade away. Since we will know fully, our reliance on faith and hope will diminish, and love will become our mainstay.

    I like "Perfect" as the better translation choice because Jesus is lacking in nothing as our Savior.
     
    #6 Van, Sep 5, 2017
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    "but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears." (NIV)
    Hence the point of the OP --singular readings. ;-)

    "But when what is complete comes, the things that are not complete will pass away." (NIrV)
    Good, I like completeness.
     
    #7 Rippon, Sep 5, 2017
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Jesus was made perfect, but was He made "completeness." The idea is Christ's suffering and death completed or fulfilled the requirement to be our sin offering. So to connect Hebrews 2:10 with 1 Cor. 13:10 using the same word (perfect) conveys the intended message better. Sadly the NIV uses perfect in one verse and completeness in the other.
     
    #8 Van, Sep 5, 2017
  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Sadly you don't know what you are talking about.

    The ISV, Mounce, NRSV and WEB all use "complete" in 1 Cor. 13:10. And they all use "perfect" in Hebrews 2:10. Got a problem with that?
     
    #9 Rippon, Sep 5, 2017
  10. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    One and the same.
    Clearly your gifts are not in the realm of Bible translation --as we all know.
     
    #10 Rippon, Sep 5, 2017
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    "A tower of strength is the name of the LORD, to Him the righteous one runs and is set safely on high."
    "The goal of the Law is Christ's bestowal of righteousness to everyone who believers."
    "but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away."

    The Greek word translated perfect (or make perfect) at Hebrews 2:10 is not the exact same word as the one translated perfect in 1 Corinthians 13:10. In Corinthians Telelos - G5046 refers to the end state of development, but in Hebrews 2:10 "Teleloo - G5048" refers to the action or an action that brought the person or thing to its end state of development, thus "made perfect" is the literal meaning.
     
    #11 Van, Sep 6, 2017
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Proverbs 18:10

    KJV Proverbs 18:10 The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.

    The KJV IMO does a wonderful job with the Hebrew here.
    into it rather than "to it" is best.

    Literally - A tower strong is (the) name of the LORD, into it runs the righteous (one) and is inaccessible.

    KJV modified
    Proverbs 18:10 The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runs into it, and is safe.

    LORD is the Hebrew tetragrammaton YHWH

    Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

    John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    JESUS is the name of the LORD.

    HankD
     
    #12 HankD, Sep 6, 2017
  13. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Duh, you don't say.

    You have contradicted yourself. You said the exact opposite in post 8.
    There is really no such thing as the literal meaning. There is a core meaning, but not really a "literal meaning."
     
    #13 Rippon, Sep 6, 2017
  14. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    "Runs to it" is better for contemporary readers of English. When I think of running into something --it's a collision.

    “The name of the LORD is a strong tower.
    A righteous person runs to it and is safe." (GWT)

    "The name of the LORD is like a strong tower.
    Godly people run to it and are safe." (1996 NIrV)

    "The name of the LORD is a strong fortress;
    the godly run to him and are safe." (NLT)

    Yes, run to "him" --because the strong fortress and the LORD are one and the same.
     
    #14 Rippon, Sep 6, 2017
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Regarding Hebrews 2:10:
    "His trials, temptations, deprivations, and physical suffering all became the instruments in his Father's hand by which Christ was 'perfected' as the Author of salvation, that he might become everything he had to be and endure everything he had to endure in order to bring many sons to glory." (pages 630,631 of A New Systematic Theology Of The Christian Faith by Robert L. Reymond)
     
    #15 Rippon, Sep 6, 2017
  16. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    NOT, one must run into (inside) the tower to be inaccessible to the roaring lion.
    If you just run "to it" you will get eaten by the lion.

    How about:

    Proverbs 18:10 The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runs inside and is safe.

    HankD

    :)
     
    #16 HankD, Sep 6, 2017
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    When you use the term "dreaded", do you mean that the Niv is not a valid translation?
     
    #17 Yeshua1, Sep 6, 2017
  18. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    That phraseology is sloppy English. "The righteous" is plural. So you should say run --not runs.
    You should also word it as "and are safe."

    "The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous run inside and are safe."

    But you know the translations of that verse that I prefer.
     
    #18 Rippon, Sep 6, 2017
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    It may be "sloppy English" but "The righteous" is singular in the Hebrew. tzaddiq not tzaddikim.

    OK a word could be added in italics for clarification :

    :)

    Proverbs 18:10 The name of the LORD is a strong tower the righteous one runs inside and is safe.

    HankD
     
    #19 HankD, Sep 6, 2017
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  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Did you see any mention of the topic? No
    Did you see smears based on falsehood? Yes
    Folks, google "literal meaning" and see if Mr. Rippon's absurd falsehood is laughable.
    And folks pay no attention to Mr. Rippon's characterizations of other peoples views, they are fictionalizations.
     
    #20 Van, Sep 6, 2017
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