Some Whacky Issues on "Separation"

You are probably meaning things more like: women shouldn't wear slacks, you shouldn't go to Six Flags, movies, to hear Billy Graham, etc., all of which I've heard, plus more. But, something totally absurd, and "new" to me, was when we were told that "Husbands will have secrets from their wives". That - in a series of 'Marriage' sermons, no less. That's a very good example of how to be "separated".

 

You still hear the ones about movies and even why you should not read C.S. Lewis or Tolkien.

 

My favorite still comes from the infamous Phil Kidd, who I heard condemn neon shoestrings b/c one who wore them was trying to look like the world.

Running a close second was the fundamentalist group I was a part of that made the young women wear coulottes over their ski bibs on a ski trip. I was in shock. It was one of the absurdities that helped jumpstart my departure from the bondage of legalism.

What is more modest than ski bibs?????

 

Weren't these all the earmarks of the counter culture in the 60's and 70's? If I remember correctly (and I do remember those days) these were all about rebellion.

I'm wondering if the ifb-er's were all that far off.

 

I believe when you consider the facts that the world seems to be winning more of the church, than the church winning the world, you'll begin to realize the truth. The saying ,"The church is getting more worldly, and the world getting more churchy" applies. Afterall, haven't we as the church, as a whole, given into those "things" and adopted them as normal behaviour?

It's all a matter of association, what you associate with worldly behviour/rebellion, is to be avoided by the Christian. It would be well noted the saying, "Man is ever learning, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth."

I believe it's more the case of the world dictating to the church,"We aren't gonna come, unless you accept our apparel" (Isaiah 4), not the church demanding lost people conform, but that carnal Christians adhere to that which is right.

If it's a matter of preference, just like when it comes to music sounding like what I went to the bars to hear, I'd rather be in the House of God, or where ever, with professing church people, in the more modest apparel than with what is associated with the rest of the world. Tell me I'm just dreaming, and I'll tell you to just leave me alone, I like it!

(Oh, by the way, Brother Kidd is right about the neon shoelaces, when you consider the context he said it in, it is associated with certain aspects of the world and it's ways. Just like it was when I was a lot younger, ear ring on one side, you were "cool", the other side, you were a Sodomite: certain color shoelaces you're a lesbian, certain color you're staright, you're a virgin "looking", not looking, a guy who is straight, bi-sexual, or otherwise. Didn't you know that? or is it you're kids didn't tell you, or wouldn't because they know you wouldn't approve?) Oh the things your kids never told you! And the things you never told your parents!

Just a quick note about ear rings, Joseph wore them as well as a nose ring and bracelets, but you have to realize where he was during that time; in Egypt, a type of the world. If they had neon shoelaces, bell bottoms, halter tops, hip-huggers, etc., they would have emitted themselves from that same land, Egypt.

It wasn't right because Joseph wore them, but you have to take it into account the authority he had while there in Egypt; We're in the world, but not to be part of it. Notice the things that came about while he was there, as well, the things that transposed in getting him there, but then the Lord takes that which was meant for evil and turned it into good. (But you never find Joseph wearing those Egyptian things when he left, huh?)
Just a thought or two,

IN Christ,(not in bondgae!)

Brother Ricky

 

There was the pastor that preached against going to the beach and was within walking distance from the Pacific Coast Highway.

Backpacks, earrings, short hair on girls, credit cards, bibles that were not black and the topper has to be taking a nap on Sunday afternoon!

 

Ricky,

The sad reality is that sometimes you don't realize what bondage is until you have been set free from it.

I will not even take the time to refute the abusurdity of some of your comments. Sometimes it is just better to let legalism take its course and hope the victim does not strangle in the process.

 

Oh man, and here I am desparately trying to get my kids to appreciate John Denver and the Carpenters!!!

 

I really don'believe you know what bondage is.

I've been set free to live for Christ, no longer in the bondage of living as the world dictates.

 

Living as some stupid church dictates can be worse than that. Evidently time or location separated me from some of these really absurd ideas, but I did have grandparents who did not want playing cards in the house-- they did, of course, allow dominoes and played them often; and nobody I knew would go hunting on Sundays, but for some reason fishing was allowed.

In many of the things brought up here, Jehovah's Witnesses are closer to the truth in their stand against blood transfusions, since the scripture does say "abstain...from blood" (Acts 15:20); there are no verses telling how one's hair must be parted, the type of material for shoes, forbidding electronic devices, and other such nonsense.

 

Oh, I could name a litany of extra-biblical standards that I have heard preached in my time. Never bellbottoms (since I ain't that OLD), but I have heard it preached that you should not chew on your pen, that women should not wear shirts with any kind of writing or design on them, and how men should not wear pastel colors. In the neverending pursuit to be more "seperated" than the next guy, many have become more pharasaical than the phalactary-toting pharisees that the word comes from.


FundamentalDan

 

I can remember when there were absolutely NO stores or bars open on Sunday! I think that was a GOOD thing. Then the stores started opening for a few hours in the afternoon. They are always open now.

To the world, Sunday is just another day.

Our town has always had an ordinance that bars could not open until 1:00 PM on Sunday (after church). They passed another ordinance this year. Now the bars can open at 11:00 AM.

To the world, Sunday is just another day.

I can remember when no one did any kind of work on Sunday. Now, they use Sunday as an excuse to get overtime. And it's triple pay!

To the world, Sunday is just another day.

Unfortunately, to a lot of Christians, Sunday is becoming just another day.

"The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church." Sadly, the standards are being lowered so much in some of the churches that Satan doesn't have to 'prevail', he can just walk right in...

BTW, Satan LOVES it when Christians call a church with high standards legalistic.

JMO,
Sue

 

Actually I spent much of my early life in bondage. But once those chains came off ....

It is great to be free.

One does not have to be bound by the world to be living in bondage. Paul spent as much time battling legalism as he did licentiousness.

Should we expect the world to act any differently?

For some reason I do not think Satan is looking for churches where the women wear pants, so that he can just walk right in. Another faulty cornerstone of modern fundies -- the outward is more significant than the inward.

I was just wondering if you could back this up with Scripture or are we to believe you have the inside scoop on what Satan loves?

 

Who mentioned women wearing pants??? It seems like every time the word standard is mentioned, people get defensive and think of women wearing pants. "Me thinkest thou dost protest too much".

I don't know what church YOU go to, but in MY church, the inward is what matters. We have found if the inward is right, the outward will follow.

How can you presume to make the statement that ALL IFBs put more importance on the outside than the inside. Do YOU have the inside scoop on THIS???

Yes, I know how Satan acts; don't you? God tells us, in the Bible, what Satan does and says and that he is "walking around like a roaring lion to destroy the brethren". "Satan is a liar and there is no truth in him."

It is really simple. Satan loves what God hates. SIN


Sue

 

Women wearing pants is simply one of the easier targets. The point is "the lowering of standards" and "these churches are easy prey for Satan" mentality is a faulty premise.

Standards is an extremely subjective term and what may be the "lowering of standards" to you is not necessarily the criteria for everyone.

I have seen Satan work as destructively in churches with "high" standards as in those that do not conform to certain preferences.

This is often a favorite line of those who want to justify their supra-scriptural guidelines (not saying this is what you are doing). My experience in these type churches is that their mentality is also the reverse -- if you are not abiding by our outward standards, then your inside is not right. And herein lies the danger of such thinking.

I never mentioned IFBs. I simply said modern fundies, meaning those who have hijacked the original meaning of fundamentalism and made it something it was not intended to be. One of the defining marks of this new group is a focus upon the outward (right hair cut, right clothes, right type of clothes, etc.).

And yes I have been exposed to the inside of such thinking. I lived it for the first half of my life.

So you are using this verse to suggest that Satan loves it when legalism is called what it is???

And legalism can be sinful.

 

One man's freedom is another man's legalism.

There are many mysteries in the Bible and many doctrines that we will not fully understand until we get to Heaven.

I have my standards. They are for me. I do not try to conform other people to them or condemn them for not doing so.

There are all sorts of standards; but I think we would both agree that we ALL live by a set of standards; whether they be good or bad.

Blessings,
Sue

 

I can agree with you here.