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SOULS DIE

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by wopik, Mar 10, 2006.

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  1. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    #1 wopik, Mar 10, 2006
  2. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    #2 wopik, Mar 10, 2006
  3. Melanie

    Melanie Active Member
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    That on the face of it contradicts everything Christiandom is on about......
     
    #3 Melanie, Mar 11, 2006
  4. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    The soul does NOT die.

    This type of thing is why I assert over and over again that a little knowledge of languages is a dangerous thing!!!
     
    #4 Charles Meadows, Mar 11, 2006
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Ezek 18:4 "The soul that sins shall die"


    Gen 3:2 4 The serpent said to the woman, ""You surely will not die!
    <Rather - in your fallen state you are like God - immortal eternal>

    Of course I admit that in all of this God points to the fact that man does not live forever, and that the soul will in fact die as we see in Ezek 18.

    But in Matt 10:28 God points out that only God can "destroy BOTH body and Soul" and that only happens in hell fire where BOTH body and soul are "destroyed".

    A house "destroyed" does not continue as home. When God destroys - the job is done to the uttermost. The bodies that are "destroyed" as God claims "in this life" are "really dust" not merely "pretend disabled".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #5 BobRyan, Mar 11, 2006
  6. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Oh really, Charles. The IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL is for 1950's has-been preachers. You sound like the Medieval Church: don't give the peasants any knowledge or they might find out we've been lying to them.


    Most Bible translators know that soul, nephesh means a mortal person, HUMAN LIFE, that's why they now translate nephesh as "person", in appropriate places like Ez 18:


    Ezekeil 18:4 - (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

    Look, every life belongs to Me. The life (soul,nephesh) of the father is like the life (soul,nephesh) of the son - both belong to Me. The person (soul,nephesh) who sins is the one who will die.


    Ezekeil 18:4 - (New King James Version)

    "Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.


    SOULS SIN - SOULS (NEPHESH) SIN


    Ez. 18:4 - (New Living Translation)

    .......The person (nephesh) who sins will be the one who dies.


    Ez. 18:4 - (New Revised Standard Version)

    Know that all lives are mine; the life of the parent as well as the life of the child is mine: it is only the person (nephesh) who sins that shall die.


    ----
     
    #6 wopik, Mar 11, 2006
  7. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Paul refers directly to the fact that God alone has immortality (1Tim 6:16).


    IMMORTALITY is a gift from God (Rom 6:23) to us mortal creatures.


    ".....For you granted him (Jesus) authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. - John 17:2-3


    The Greek concept of the immortal soul assumes that individuals already possess eternal life — that the only question is where this eternal life is spent after death.


    http://www.servantsnews.com/sn9706/s70603.htm


    -----------
     
    #7 wopik, Mar 11, 2006
  8. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Numbers 19:13 is not speaking of a soul, but a physical body. The soul leaves the body upon death. The soul is not something one can touch or grasp with the human hands.
     
    #8 standingfirminChrist, Mar 11, 2006
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Words have different meanings. Only context can determine the proper meaning of the word at any given time. This is true for the word "nephesh" or soul, as it is with many other words in the Old and New Testament. Most often in the Old Testament the word soul is used to refer to the mind, the heart, the seat of our affections, but not always.
    Here is the definition(s) of "nephesh."

    So take your choice. But be careful about the context. It is obvious that the "dead body" in Numbers 19:13 refers to the "breathing creature" referred to in one of the first definitions given in the list for "nephesh." Context demands it.
    DHK
     
    #9 DHK, Mar 11, 2006
  10. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    yes, I agree, DHK.

    The word 'soul' is one of the meanings of 'nephesh', but one cannot grasp or hold onto a soul (spirit).

    1 Kings 17:21-22 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

    The word 'soul' in this passage is also 'nephesh'

    H5315 nephesh (417)
    nephesh neh'-fesh from 5314; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):--any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

    In this account, it is not a tangible body that is shown as 'nephesh', but indeed something living.
     
    #10 standingfirminChrist, Mar 11, 2006
  11. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Nephesh is used of man, as actually dead, in thirteen passages, and is rendered in three different ways:


    "dead body" - dead nephesh (Num. 9:6, 7, 10).


    "body" - nephesh (Lev. 21:11. Num. 6:6; 19:11, 13. Hag. 2:13).


    "the dead" - nephesh (Lev. 19:28; 21:1; 22:4. Num. 5:2; 6:11).


    http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/nephesh.html


    -------


    http://bible.crosswalk.com/InterlinearBible/bible.cgi?section=0&showtools=1&version=kjv&word=the%20dead&st=21&sd=0 - numbers 19:13 body=nephesh

    [ March 11, 2006, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: wopik ]
     
    #11 wopik, Mar 11, 2006
  12. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    #12 wopik, Mar 11, 2006
  13. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    #13 wopik, Mar 11, 2006
  14. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Souls have blood (Jeremiah 2:34, KJV).


    Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these.


    NEW KING JAMES VERSION:


    Also on your skirts is found The blood of the lives of the poor innocents. I have not found it by secret search, But plainly on all these things.
     
    #14 wopik, Mar 11, 2006
  15. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Wopik,

    It is obvious that nefesh refers here to the body and not what we consider the "soul". If your claim was simply that human bodies are capable of being killed then I guess no one will challenge you. That is pretty much self-evident.

    It seems as if you are trying to read something into the fact that the word nefesh is used.

    As as for my comment about languages (that a little learning is a dangerous thing) I stand behind it. I never said that lay people should not learn languages - but I will assert that the average lay person who "studies" a language knows only enough to muddy the water.
     
    #15 Charles Meadows, Mar 11, 2006
  16. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    The soul does not die. 2 Kings 17. "The child's soul returned into him'
     
    #16 standingfirminChrist, Mar 11, 2006
  17. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    "the soul that sins, it shall die" - Ezekiel 18:4, 20.

    Dear Sir, God help you to see the truth.


    Then he stretched himself upon the child three times, and called to the LORD and said, "O LORD my God, I pray You, let this child's life return to him."


    The LORD heard the voice of Elijah, and the life of the child returned to him and he revived.


    -----------------------------------------


    Joshua 11:11, KJV -- And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them: there was not any left to breathe: and he burnt Hazor with fire.


    Joshua 11:11, New American Standard Bible -- They struck every person who was in it with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying {them;} there was no one left who breathed. And he burned Hazor with fire.


    nephesh can be destroyed, nephesh can breath - KJV


    http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/nephesh.html
     
    #17 wopik, Mar 11, 2006
  18. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    DUST + BREATH = living SOUL


    The Biblical definition of a soul is simply a breathing body. Notice that the text does not say that man was given a soul, but rather he became a soul. A soul is not something a person has; it is the person. Souls have blood (Jeremiah 2:34, KJV). Not only are people souls, but so are fish and animals (Revelation 16:3).


    Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these. - Jeremiah 2:34, KJV


    ---
     
    #18 wopik, Mar 11, 2006
  19. Petrel

    Petrel New Member

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    What's the point? Are you saying there is no afterlife?
     
    #19 Petrel, Mar 11, 2006
  20. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    nephesh and psuche (soul, body, person, life) is not the same as RUACH (spirit) and PNEUMA (spirit).


    http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/ruach.html

    http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/pneuma.html     </font>[/QUOTE]If only people would remember that the spirit and the soul are not the same things, there would be much confusion avoided.

    The soul is the life; even animals have souls.

    The teaching that man is a dichotomous being is the teaching of natural evolution.
     
    #20 Hope of Glory, Mar 12, 2006
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