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Southern Gospel groups using "worldly" studio musicians

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Mike McK, Mar 30, 2002.

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  1. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    I personally don't have a problem with Southern Gospel groups using mainstream artists as studio musicians, but does anyone else?

    The reason I'm asking is that on another board, I was condemned for listening to mainstream music by people who listen to Southern Gospel music (which I would have thought was dangerously close to that evil 'ol country music).

    I asked why it was bad to listen to drums, electrified instruments and upbeat music in the context of popular music, but perfectly fine to listen to it in the context of Southern Gospel. If both have Christ honoring lyrics, why the double standard?

    I also asked if was appropriate to listen to music (even gospel music) made by so-called "wordly" artists.

    I was called a liar and told that this person knows the Cathedrals personally, and that there's no way that they would possibly use mainstream artists.

    When I listed the musicians (as listed on the Cathedrals' own liner notes, no less!) and then listed their affiliations with everyone from Shania Twain, Rosie O'Donnell, Dixie Chicks, members of Jefferson Airplane, Jimmy Buffett, hank Williams Jr, and dozens of others, the entire thread about the Cathedrals was removed.

    When I mentioned further (not realizing that the board Gestapo had censored the thread) that Gold City used several of the same artists and more who had mainstream affiliations, my posts were deleted.

    A couple of other posts were deleted for other reasons.

    I don't really care about the idea of using mainstream artists, because I'm more interested in the music, itself, and I'm not naive enough to think that this person's man enough to apologize, but what do other Southern Gospel fans think about SG groups using mainstream artists?

    Is this really a problem?

    Mike
     
    #1 Mike McK, Mar 30, 2002
  2. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    No, it wasn't on BaptistBoard.

    When I first started coming here, there was a little of that, but they're really good about dissenting views now on BaptistBoard.

    I think that was more because they were still setting the posting parameters for the board than a case of censorship.

    This was on Yes-I-believe.com

    Unfornately, the whole thread has been erased, but this guy's response was really funny.

    He was so upset that I had the chutzpah to point out the players on a couple of the Cathedrals, Legacy Five, and Gold City albums, you would have thought I slapped his momma.

    Funny thing is, while I'm not supposed to point this out, he has no problem that the bands, themselves, list the players in their liner notes.

    Mike

    http://www.randystonehill.com
     
    #2 Mike McK, Mar 30, 2002
  3. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    fromtheright, are you there?

    Mike
     
    #3 Mike McK, Mar 30, 2002
  4. fromtheright

    fromtheright <img src =/2844.JPG>

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    Right here, if the Administrator will let me.

    I had a crisis there for a moment--I was there and then the Administrator took me away!

    [ March 30, 2002, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: fromtheright ]
     
    #4 fromtheright, Mar 30, 2002
  5. fromtheright

    fromtheright <img src =/2844.JPG>

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    Smoke Eater,

    Being a parrothead, I am curious which Buffett musicians they used.

    Gene
     
    #5 fromtheright, Mar 30, 2002
  6. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    Cool! Another parrothead. And one from Alabama, no less (I grew up in Pleasant Grove).

    David Angell is one of the musicians in question.

    He arranged the string sections and played violin on "Far Side of the World" (which for some odd reason, I still don't have), "Barometer Soup", "Beach House on the Moon", "Fruitcakes" and "Banana Wind".

    One of the Coral Reefers, was producing Christian music a few years ago, but I forget which one.

    I think it was either Barry Chance or Jay Spell.

    By the way, I've gone back to Yes-I-believe.com to see what was going on, and I've been banned.

    What a great site Y-I-B is. I'm banned for asking a question, yet the moderators can lie about me and misrepresent me to their heart's delight.

    Anyway, back to the original topic.

    Is it really that big a deal that the Cathedrals, Legacy 5 and Gold City would use mainstream artists on their records?

    If you're one of those who think that mainstream music is bad, how do you feel about this?

    Mike

    http://www.margaritavilleradio.com

    http://www.randystonehill.com

    [ April 01, 2002, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]
     
    #6 Mike McK, Mar 30, 2002
  7. fromtheright

    fromtheright <img src =/2844.JPG>

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    Mike,

    I think I had heard something like that about Jay Spell.

    I haven't gotten Far Side of the World yet either but listened to part of it on an MP3 site late one night, the only song I liked was the first song, very much in the Buffett calypso flavor, didn't care for most of the rest. I must confess, and it pains me as a parrothead to say this, that I haven't been much impressed with his stuff in the last few years. With the exception of a couple of cuts on a couple of albums ("Will Play for Gumbo", "Math S---", "Bob Roberts Society Band", and "False Echoes") I think the last really good one was Barometer Soup.

    Also curious, your mention of Barry Chance leads me to ask, does your "parrothead pedigree" go all the way back to the original Coral Reefers?

    Yes, back to the original topic.

    No, I don't have any problem with mainstream artists backing up Christian groups. Most of the music I listen to is mainstream (country, mostly, and some oldies) but I do like Gold City, they played at my church a few years ago, but I generally don't care that much for alot of Southern Gospel, but I do like the Statler Brothers. Though some of it could be lumped in the sinful category, I don't care for those who put all of country music in that category--I defy anyone to so label Alan Jackson's "Where Were You When the World Stopped Turning". As a teenager I listened to alot of rock, mostly Alice Cooper.

    [ March 30, 2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: fromtheright ]
     
    #7 fromtheright, Mar 30, 2002
  8. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    Hey, Gene,

    I'm 32 but I've been a fan ever since I saw Bubba and Steve Goodman at the Alabama State Fair in the early seventies.

    Steve Goodman sat on the tailgate of a pickup and did magic tricks for a bunch of us kids.

    I've got all of his albums (except the latest one)and I've seen him at least fifteen or sixteen times (maybe more) but my favorite stuff is the older stuff. You know you're a true parrothead when you divide his career in to the "moustache" and "post-moustache" periods.

    The best album is "You Had to be There", for reasons I can't say on BaptistBoard.

    After that is probably "A White Sport Coat..." and A1A.

    Mike
     
    #8 Mike McK, Mar 30, 2002
  9. fromtheright

    fromtheright <img src =/2844.JPG>

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    Mike,

    I first saw him in 1975 at Jacksonville State University when he came with Linda Ronstadt. Ronstadt sang beautifully but just went from song to song, didn't get into the crowd at all. Buffett came out and the first thing he said was "Lets ___ ___ and ___ " (this is a Baptist site, after all) and instantaneously had us college kids (I'm 44 now) eating out of his hands and instantly created a new flock of parrotheads. He was such a hit that they brought him back in the spring.

    I've got all of them except for the last live one (Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays) and Far Side. Challenge--do you have the Rancho Deluxe soundtrack? The Parakeet album (a kids choral group singing Buffett songs)? I've seen him 17 times but in the span of 12-years longer so you've definitely got me beat in the concert department. I never cease to be amazed at how people who have never been to see Buffett before instantly become parrotheads after seeing him in concert. But I've also got to admit, embarrassingly as a parrothead, that they're actually getting old, because he hasn't come out with that much good stuff in the last few years and most of the concert sets are the same old (though good) songs.

    Best album? I definitely agree with you on You Had to be There but would probably put Last Mango next. Have you ever been to the Church of Buffett Orthodox website?

    Gene

    [ March 30, 2002, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: fromtheright ]
     
    #9 fromtheright, Mar 30, 2002
  10. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    Hey, Gene,

    "Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays", is much better than "Feeding Frenzy".

    Don't have "Rancho Deluxe" but I keep meaning to get it, or at least have my brother in law burn one for me.

    Yeah, I agree. Once you see the live circus, there's no going back. There's a really large Parrothead contingency here so the parking lot is as much fun as the show.

    I know a lot of people who can't get tickets who just show up for the parking lot party.

    The last couple of years, Jimmy's had bands in the parking lot for people who couldn't get in to the show, which I thought was a really cool thing for him to do. One year, Michael Utley's band was in the lot and stopped at our spot and partied with us.

    Unfortunately, Bubba and Fingers still haven't kissed and made up, so it doesn't look like he'll be there again this year. Bummer.

    Last year he had Clint Black on harp and they did a couple of Clint Black songs Parrothead-style.

    A killer version of "When My Ship Comes In". I'd like to see Jimmy put that on an album.

    I heard somebody on the radio say that he might have Delbert McClinton and Lee Roy Parnell with him this year. That would be too cool.

    By the way, AOL is playing all of the new CD. Listening to it now and it's better than "Beach House on the Moon."

    Gene, do they have a Parrothead Phlock where you are? They have three or four of them here and they're a blast.

    For those who don't know, a Phlock is a group of Parrotheads, officially sanctioned by Jimmy, himself, who get together to do charity things and then party afterwards.

    So far, the South Jersy Phlock has done beach clean ups, raised money for cancer, MD (the disease, not the wine), the homeless, 9/11, the restoration of the battleship New Jersey and several other things.

    Mike

    "Parrotheads are basically Deadheads with jobs and better hygene." - P.J. O'Rourke

    http://www.radiomargaritaville.com

    [ October 02, 2002, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]
     
    #10 Mike McK, Apr 1, 2002
  11. fromtheright

    fromtheright <img src =/2844.JPG>

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    Hi Mike,

    Saw Buffett in Nashville at the arena a couple of years ago and he had Utley and Greenridge playing in the hallway outside and the backup girls started a conga line that was winding through the hallway, was alot of fun.

    I may yet get Tuesdays now but I think part of the reason will be to hear "Migration", one of my favorite of his old songs.

    So how was Clint Black, I heard he was a letdown, but that almost goes without saying in comparing him with Finges on the harmonica (or even vocals--I love "Some White People Can Dance").

    Buffett did a song seveal years ago, a Marshall Chapman song, in concert that I have long looked for on an album, a beautiful tune called "Shiver Me Timbers." I haven't heard him do it since.

    There is a Rocket City Parrothead Club but I've missed their get-togethers so far.

    I loved the O'Rourke quote.

    Gene
     
    #11 fromtheright, Apr 1, 2002
  12. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    Hi Gene,

    Clint Black was pretty good. He's actually an excellent harp player.

    He was a bigger part of the show than Fingers ever was. There was a lot of interplay between him and Buffett.

    Mike

    [ October 02, 2002, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]
     
    #12 Mike McK, Apr 1, 2002
  13. fromtheright

    fromtheright <img src =/2844.JPG>

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    Mike,

    I'm glad to hear it. Any idea who is playing harmonica with Buffett on this current tour? I guess I'll need to resign myself to Fingers being gone, huh?

    Gene
     
    #13 fromtheright, Apr 1, 2002
  14. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    I don't know who, except that it's not Greg Taylor.

    I've heard rumors that it may be Delbert McClinton and that LeeRoy Parnell may be siiting in with the CRB.

    Mike

    [ October 02, 2002, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]
     
    #14 Mike McK, Apr 2, 2002
  15. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I'll probably get jumped on, but I say that unregenerate, unsaved, non-believers can keep their grubby little heathen meat-hooks off of our music.

    I do listen to a lot of non-Christian music. A whole lot. But I really do think that Christian music is for christians to perform & enjoy. I find it hard to believe that they couldn't find qualified christian musicians & producers to do this work.

    Isn't that what the bible instructs ?

    And I'll probably get jumped on for this, also, but I have seen Jimmy Buffet numerous times, on both coasts, before being saved. A Buffet concert is not exactly a christian atmosphere, is it ? It would be very hard for me to recommend that band to a new Christian. I mean, you guys do what you want, I won't judge. But there are youngsters on this board who don't yet know of the debauchery that goes on at his shows, & don't really need to be encouraged to find out.

    JMNSHO

    [ April 05, 2002, 04:43 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]
     
    #15 Bro. Curtis, Apr 5, 2002
  16. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    Given the choice between taking my kid to a Buffett show, and an Eagles game, I'll take the Buffett show every time.

    The only thing that really goes on that I wouldn't want my kids exposed to is the excessive drinking, but most of that goes on in the parking lot. Simple solution: keep your kids out of the parking lot.

    Mike

    [ April 06, 2002, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]
     
    #16 Mike McK, Apr 5, 2002
  17. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I do still like Jimmy Buffet. But you have to admit, it's not a Christian atmosphere, in or out of the pavilion.

    [ April 06, 2002, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]
     
    #17 Bro. Curtis, Apr 6, 2002
  18. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    I want to make something clear. I never meant non-Christians, I meant musicians who also appear on mainstream projects.

    bennieboy on Y-I-B is the one who made it about Christian musicians vs. non-Cristians, not me.

    I have no idea which one of these guys are Christians and which aren't. I just know that the majority of their work is on mainstream projects.

    No, I don't have a problem with mainstream arists appearing on Gospel albums because I don't think Southern Gospel is anything more than entertainment.

    While "ministry" may be a pleasant by-product and people may by inspired or encouraged, I don't think it is a form of ministry per se.

    While I like Southern Gospel, living up here in Yankee-vile doesn't give me a chance to go to many live shows. The shows I have been to didn't have alter calls, didn't have "counseling" and were generally just presented as pretty much any other concert and I just don't see how Southern Gospel could be adversely affected by having mainstream studio musicians.

    As a form of entertainment, I don't see any problem with Christians asking non-Christians for help, but if it were a ministry, such as church music, then I could see wanting to keep it to Christian musicians.

    As for Buffett, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Christian atmosphere".

    It's not a church and their aren't prayer meetings going on.

    Is there a "Christian atmosphere" at a ball game or on South Street or in an office building?

    People go to concerts to enjoy good music and to mix with other people in a party atmosphere.

    Mike

    http://www.sincityband.com

    [ December 20, 2002, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Mike McK ]
     
    #18 Mike McK, Apr 6, 2002
  19. fromtheright

    fromtheright <img src =/2844.JPG>

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    Mike,

    I've got to agree with Curtis that it's definitely not a Christian atmosphere but you're also right--neither is a ballgame. Buffett concerts do tend to celebrate debauchery, though, more than one would incidentally be exposed to at a ballgame. That said, however, Mr. Curtis, we've taken my then 10-year old son to two of his concerts because he does like the music. It's fun music that, along with its occasional debauchery (it's not nearly as prevalent as it used to be at his shows--parrotheads have "grown up" and have kids), also celebrates the Caribbean and a little, mostly quite harmless, escapism. My son and I don our dreadlock wigs (yeah, my wife is a little embarrassed to be with us, I haven't been able to fully convert her yet to COBO), shorts, Hawaiian shirts, flip flops, and I a coconut bra and we have a ball. If it helps to reel him in from the garbage music that's out there right now, I'll take it.

    Gene

    [ April 06, 2002, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: fromtheright ]
     
    #19 fromtheright, Apr 6, 2002
  20. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    Gene,

    I've never seen any hint of trouble at a Buffett show (other than having to step over the occasional amateur frat boy in the bathroom), but I can't remember the last time there wasn't a fight or somebody being carried out of an Eagles' game.

    I can name at least a dozen incidents at Phillies' games.

    There were a couple of people carried out near us yesterday and a couple in Atlanta Braves gear had beer thrown on them.

    I don't know that I'd go so far as to say that Buffett shows "celebrate debauchery" but there are things that go on there that I don't know if I'd want my kids exposed to.

    There are people there who drink too much and the occasional "show us your ____" chants but, for the most part, it's harmless.

    Mike

    [ October 02, 2002, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]
     
    #20 Mike McK, Apr 6, 2002
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