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Speeding
- Thread starter J. Jump
- Start date
Brother Bob
New Member
I use the Ten Commandments as my guide and can't find "speeding" in them. Of Course, I use the two that Jesus added of which I believe if you keep those two, you will have to keep the Ten.
So, he could be a Christian or he could not. You didn't say whether he was a Christian when he got under the wheel.
Then again, you could say this is just a strawman, couldn't you?
So, he could be a Christian or he could not. You didn't say whether he was a Christian when he got under the wheel.
Then again, you could say this is just a strawman, couldn't you?
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If you are speeding than you are breaking the law and not being Christ-like......hence the term "christian".
HOWEVER, that does not mean that you are not saved. Salvation is a one-time done deal which bears predictable fruit. Say you have a fruit tree, an orange tree. Because it is an orange tree it will bear oranges. The oranges do not CREATE the tree's nature, they are the RESULT of the tree's nature. It might not be a very good orange tree, the fruit might be sickly, or even rarely show......but it still is an orange tree. As saved people we are commanded to cultivate the fruit in our lives.......to help those little orange tree blossoms of good works to grow into full, ripe fruit that others can partake of and be refreshed. If we fail in this, if we falter in our attempts to produce ripe fruit, do we cease to be an orange tree? No. We simply are not a very good orange tree, and we need to do much better, because it is our duty. It is what we OUGHT to do because of what we are.
HOWEVER, that does not mean that you are not saved. Salvation is a one-time done deal which bears predictable fruit. Say you have a fruit tree, an orange tree. Because it is an orange tree it will bear oranges. The oranges do not CREATE the tree's nature, they are the RESULT of the tree's nature. It might not be a very good orange tree, the fruit might be sickly, or even rarely show......but it still is an orange tree. As saved people we are commanded to cultivate the fruit in our lives.......to help those little orange tree blossoms of good works to grow into full, ripe fruit that others can partake of and be refreshed. If we fail in this, if we falter in our attempts to produce ripe fruit, do we cease to be an orange tree? No. We simply are not a very good orange tree, and we need to do much better, because it is our duty. It is what we OUGHT to do because of what we are.
Brother Bob
New Member
bapmom, could that "orange tree" commit adultery?
Brother Bob,
to continue the analogy, the orange tree could indeed produce fruit that was rotten......ie adultery, theivery, etc. Hence the command to produce GOOD fruit. If it was impossible for us to produce BAD fruit than why would God command us to produce the good fruit? The analogy of "good tree only producing good fruit" is given to us precisely because some Christians were producing bad fruit and they were being chastised for it.
to continue the analogy, the orange tree could indeed produce fruit that was rotten......ie adultery, theivery, etc. Hence the command to produce GOOD fruit. If it was impossible for us to produce BAD fruit than why would God command us to produce the good fruit? The analogy of "good tree only producing good fruit" is given to us precisely because some Christians were producing bad fruit and they were being chastised for it.
No speeding is not directly in the 10 Commandments, however, the NT tells us that we are to obey the governments that are in charge of us because they are set up by God. Therefore we are to obey the laws of the land unless they contradict Scripture.
Having a posted speed limit does not violate Scripture, so therefore it must be obeyed according to Scripture. Hence the question. If a person speeds can they be a saved individual?
Brother Bob don't hijack my thread
This is about speeding not adultery.Rufus_1611
New Member
My mother drove my sister and I to California from Washington state in the late 80's. Mom was a pretty proper gal and did all she could to obey authority. The speed limit on the 5 freeway was posted as 55 so my mother in her sweet naivety drove 55, crazy eh? This was our first introduction to the California Highway Patrol as we had one of their finest drive up behind us real close and over a PA system yell "Go with the flow of traffic!". Texas many years later, I'm driving 65 in a 55 at the end of the month in a city that is desperate for creative revenue generation and meeting budget targets. Would you believe they didn't tell me to "Go with the flow of traffic"?J. Jump said:
Someone's salvation is not determined according to moving violations. A person is saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ as the blood atonement for sin. Good works (obeying traffic signs) do not get people to an eternity in heaven nor do bad works (application of too much pedal on too much metal) send them to an eternity in the lake of fire.
Brother Bob
New Member
Well J. Jump, it could be a sin but not a sin unto death so you could be a Christian. Also, you know the tree by the fruit it bears and if it bore adultery fruit then it is a sinner tree.
I will not hijack your thread J. Jump, I wonder if this board believes in being "born again" which is by an incorruptible seed. No one has to answer, this is J. Jump's thread so I have to go to town and think I will break the speed limit as I go.
BTW, a good tree can not bring forth corrupt fruit according to Jesus of whom I try to serve.
I will not hijack your thread J. Jump, I wonder if this board believes in being "born again" which is by an incorruptible seed. No one has to answer, this is J. Jump's thread so I have to go to town and think I will break the speed limit as I go.
BTW, a good tree can not bring forth corrupt fruit according to Jesus of whom I try to serve.
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Bro. Bob let me get this straight. So it is okay for a child of God to be in open rebellion in regard to speeding. He/She will still be allowed into heaven even as rebels. But a person that commits one act of adultery and remains unrepentant about it does not go to heaven?
Do I have you right? That's what you think?
Brother Bob
New Member
Yes, you got it. How can anyone equate speeding with adultery is far far beyond me. That is why we are having such problems in our churches today with Haggards. We all have sin about us but not the Ten Commandment kind.
1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
http://www.sbtexas.com/default.asp?action=article&aid=3403&issue=12/11/2006
Do you believe the saved are "born again", I mean born of God?
1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
http://www.sbtexas.com/default.asp?action=article&aid=3403&issue=12/11/2006
Do you believe the saved are "born again", I mean born of God?
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Brother Bob said:
In my opinion you are wrong, because how can you love someone, which is the very foundation of the Law yet risk their lives by speeding? risking your own and/or someone else's life. No different than drunk driving.
Thou shalt not kill would be where that falls under. The very definition of sin is transgression of the law. There is no sin that doesnt fall somewhere under the ten commandments.
right Bob?
can you see my point?
Claudia
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Brother Bob
New Member
You said speeding which could be 3 mile over 4 mile over. You didn't say driving like a maniac or a rebel. There would be something wrong with a man who did that.
Claudia, that is a far reach to try to bring going over speed limit to the Ten Commandments.
Strawmen, everytime someone tries to bring in "well you get angry" and compare it with adultery. Always looking for an excuse to throw the Commandments out the door, seems to me.
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well if the civil laws are something God said we should obey then... the thing is that the last 6 commandments are supposed to be in the realm of the Government. Not the first 4 having to do with God and how we worship Him..
Loving thy neighbor has to do with civil law. Like you dont go shoot your neighbor, run over them with a truck, kill them, steal from them... etc...
Loving thy neighbor has to do with civil law. Like you dont go shoot your neighbor, run over them with a truck, kill them, steal from them... etc...
Speeding is speeding. It doesn't matter whether you are going 56 in a 55 zone or if you are going 156. Speeding that is unprentant is open rebellion toward the law of the land, which is to be followed unless it conflicts with Scripture.
It is inconsistant at best that you say a disobedient rebel will be allowed into heaven, but a one-time adulterer will not.
Brother Bob
New Member
You consider abortion law to be ordained of God also.
Brother Bob said:
the Apostles said, when confronted with people trying to get them to sin against God by obeying government laws said "I must obey God rather than men"
I dont think you ought to be able to kill babies, no... and the Government ought to be able to tell you that, within reason... except in extreme cases
Brother Bob
New Member
I can't believe what I hear on this board that you consider going 3 miles over the speed limit to going 156 mile over. That statement alone is unreasonable. Also, to compare going 3 mile over the speed limit and adultery as the same is also unreasonable.
How can we have a serious discussion when you say 3 mile over speed limit is no different than 156 mile over?
That tell the whole story about speeding and adultery.
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