Speeding

[bapmom]

What about being born of an "incorruptile seed". What about being "cleansed" by the blood of the Lamb. Are we waiting for that also.

No, we aren't waiting for that also. You disprove your own belief system with this reference. If we are born of an incorruptible seed (as the Bible most certainly says we are) than we cannot corrupt it.......hello?

And if we are cleansed by the blood of Christ (as the Bible also clearly says) than we cannot be made dirty again in God's eyes....because the Blood of Christ is incorruptible.

This means that our sins are "under the blood". Under what blood? the Blood that Jesus shed on the cross. Well, which sins did He cover with that blood? Just the ones up to the point where I got saved? Or ALL my sin? If it was just the ones up to when I was saved, than what about the ones I committed after salvation? Who's blood covers those sins? If not Christ's on the cross, than does He need to be recrucified? Isn't there a verse about that somewhere?

:BangHead:

 

[Claudia_T]

No, we aren't waiting for that also. You disprove your own belief system with this reference. If we are born of an incorruptible seed (as the Bible most certainly says we are) than we cannot corrupt it.......hello?

And if we are cleansed by the blood of Christ (as the Bible also clearly says) than we cannot be made dirty again in God's eyes....because the Blood of Christ is incorruptible.

This means that our sins are "under the blood". Under what blood? the Blood that Jesus shed on the cross. Well, which sins did He cover with that blood? Just the ones up to the point where I got saved? Or ALL my sin? If it was just the ones up to when I was saved, than what about the ones I committed after salvation? Who's blood covers those sins? If not Christ's on the cross, than does He need to be recrucified? Isn't there a verse about that somewhere?

:BangHead:

but the bible spells out CONDITIONS... I used to have a book I got from the Christian Book store and it had listed hundreds of conditions on things in the Bible... IF you do this THEN God will do that.

 

[Brother Bob]

No, we aren't waiting for that also. You disprove your own belief system with this reference. If we are born of an incorruptible seed (as the Bible most certainly says we are) than we cannot corrupt it.......hello?

Very Good bapmom; Then you should have no problem with this.


1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Surely you don't believe just because you are saved you can commit adultery when Jesus said if you do that you are a liar.

 

[J. Jump]

Are they a Christian?

Well it depends on whose theology you go by. See the probelm with this question is that we can't even agree on what it means to be a Christian or to be saved.

The Bible says clearly we will fall and fail all the time. Thats why we have an Advocate.

I dont believe we should wilfully sin. You can go over the speed limit not realizing it or you can go over the speed limit knowing full well you are doing it, then there are those Christians who dont even realize its a sin to go over the speed limit.

I think to God, those things matter. its the wilfully sinning that is bad.

But Christians will sin, the Bible tells me so. They need to repent though.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would think speeding is not a sin, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. I do agree there are those that speed without realizing it and then once they do they stop.

My question is in regard to those people that no better and do it anyway. You say they need to repent thought. And while I agree, what if they don't? Are they saved and just unrepentant or are they not saved.

 

[J. Jump]

And if we are cleansed by the blood of Christ (as the Bible also clearly says) than we cannot be made dirty again in God's eyes....because the Blood of Christ is incorruptible.

This means that our sins are "under the blood". Under what blood? the Blood that Jesus shed on the cross. Well, which sins did He cover with that blood? Just the ones up to the point where I got saved? Or ALL my sin? If it was just the ones up to when I was saved, than what about the ones I committed after salvation? Who's blood covers those sins? If not Christ's on the cross, than does He need to be recrucified? Isn't there a verse about that somewhere?

Bapmom let me try to understand where you are coming from . . . are you saying that a person that openly rebels against God through speeding can still be a child of God, and that his/her open rebellion will go unpunnished because it is under the blood because ALL sin was forgiven at the point of salvation? Do I have you correct?

 

[Shiloh]

but the bible spells out CONDITIONS... I used to have a book I got from the Christian Book store and it had listed hundreds of conditions on things in the Bible... IF you do this THEN God will do that. by Claudia

Don't doubt that, I bet it was called "The New World Translation"

 

[bapmom]

Very Good bapmom; Then you should have no problem with this.


1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Surely you don't believe just because you are saved you can commit adultery when Jesus said if you do that you are a liar.

This verse is talking about Phariseeism.......not salvation. It is talking about saying you are walking with God and yet living like the devil. That sort of person is a liar. Actually yes, I believe that a person can fail in this way, and still have been a genuine believer in Christ. They aren't acting as if they know Christ, but they can still be saved. God will deal with them.

 

[Claudia_T]

Well it depends on whose theology you go by. See the probelm with this question is that we can't even agree on what it means to be a Christian or to be saved.


I find it hard to believe that anyone would think speeding is not a sin, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. I do agree there are those that speed without realizing it and then once they do they stop.

My question is in regard to those people that no better and do it anyway. You say they need to repent thought. And while I agree, what if they don't? Are they saved and just unrepentant or are they not saved.

well we arent allow to say our opinion on that or we will be accused of thinking we are God. was that a trick question?

 

[Brother Bob]

This verse is talking about Phariseeism.......not salvation. It is talking about saying you are walking with God and yet living like the devil. That sort of person is a liar. Actually yes, I believe that a person can fail in this way, and still have been a genuine believer in Christ. They aren't acting as if they know Christ, but they can still be saved. God will deal with them.__________________

bapmom; It says that We don't even "know Him" if they do such things.

 

[J. Jump]

well we arent allow to say our opinion on that or we will be accused of thinking we are God. was that a trick question?

Not a trick question. Just trying to see where people are coming from. I guess I left out an option in that question.

Is a person that knows they are breaking the speed limit and don't care unsaved, saved but unrepentant or lost their salvation?

 

[Claudia_T]

Not a trick question. Just trying to see where people are coming from. I guess I left out an option in that question.

Is a person that knows they are breaking the speed limit and don't care unsaved, saved but unrepentant or lost their salvation?

In my opinion, it has to do with wilful rebellion and I dont think you can be justified in wilful rebellion, NO.

 

[Claudia_T]

JJ<

In my opinion, what people are missing here is that it is the tenor of your walk with God that matters. Because I cant see that if normally you would realize your mistake then repent... but you were just unlucky enough to get killed during speeding down the highway....


well I dont see that as that you'd be lost if the general direction you were going was toward God... in other words salvation isnt determined by how good or bad your luck is..at the time

I didnt realize this factor till now in all of these weird debates about suicide, etc..

 

[tinytim]

Tim,

Im sorry, I didnt even realize there was a first question to answer, I sorta got lost in all the commotion

Just speeding along this thread huh? :thumbs:

 

[Claudia_T]

well I hope that you dont give me a ticket, Tim ...


I swear I didnt see that sign, officer

 

[Claudia_T]

...I think I just lied

 

[J. Jump]

In my opinion, it has to do with wilful rebellion and I dont think you can be justified in wilful rebellion, NO.

So was the person never saved in the first place or will the person lose their salvation?

 

[tinytim]

...I think I just lied

Confession is good for the soul.

 

[bapmom]

This is Bapmom's husband

Our six children are our children by reason of genetics - born of our seed, if you will. Nothing they or us can do or say will change the law of genetics, of parentage, of descendancy. They will always be our children. We can disown each other if the person-to-person relationship deteriorates enough, but the denial of our link does not change genetics. This is salvation. But salvation is better - incorruptible seed. He will never deny us because we became genetically his by being born of that incorruptible seed and being chosen by Him to be adopted into His family. The two-fold bond is stronger than human blood ties. We are saved from the ultimate penalty of sin - death in hell. We may suffer natural consequences of our sin - drugs, alcohol, speeding tickets, a posse on our tail for knocking over the First National Bank - which God will allow us to suffer because He is our Father and He chastises us. But death in Hell is an option forever removed from having any power over us. Those natural consequences to sin after we are saved include a disrupted relationship with our Heavenly Father, just like can happen between children and their parents when they disobey and sin. the personal relationship can change, but not the family relationship in the sense of genetics and adoption. One more thing - All sin that any of us have ever or will ever sin was future sin to the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross. He paid for it ALL. There is no sin I can commit that He didn't already know about and has already offered complete payment for. It has to be incorruptible seed because after I sin, I need that seed to keep me from losing my salvation - that's why losing it is not possible. Is a speeding Christian possible? YES! Has it affected his relationship with God and the Highway Patrol? YES!

 

[Claudia_T]

So was the person never saved in the first place or will the person lose their salvation?

well like I said, I think it has to do with the tenor or the direction you were headed. We go the right way in my opinion because we are looking at Jesus...

sorta like we have to WALK ON WATER so to speak, remember Peter? How as long as he was looking at Jesus he could walk on water? well the second he looked down he sank.

I dont know that this would cause us to lose our salvation if normally when we see our mistake we turn and go back to God in repentence.

I think it would be the wilful persistant sinner who would be lost.

Now that I have had the chance to think about all of this some more.

 

[Brother Bob]

This is Bapmom's husband

Our six children are our children by reason of genetics - born of our seed, if you will. Nothing they or us can do or say will change the law of genetics, of parentage, of descendancy. They will always be our children. We can disown each other if the person-to-person relationship deteriorates enough, but the denial of our link does not change genetics. This is salvation. But salvation is better - incorruptible seed. He will never deny us because we became genetically his by being born of that incorruptible seed and being chosen by Him to be adopted into His family. The two-fold bond is stronger than human blood ties. We are saved from the ultimate penalty of sin - death in hell. We may suffer natural consequences of our sin - drugs, alcohol, speeding tickets, a posse on our tail for knocking over the First National Bank - which God will allow us to suffer because He is our Father and He chastises us. But death in Hell is an option forever removed from having any power over us. Those natural consequences to sin after we are saved include a disrupted relationship with our Heavenly Father, just like can happen between children and their parents when they disobey and sin. the personal relationship can change, but not the family relationship in the sense of genetics and adoption. One more thing - All sin that any of us have ever or will ever sin was future sin to the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross. He paid for it ALL. There is no sin I can commit that He didn't already know about and has already offered complete payment for. It has to be incorruptible seed because after I sin, I need that seed to keep me from losing my salvation - that's why losing it is not possible. Is a speeding Christian possible? YES! Has it affected his relationship with God and the Highway Patrol? YES!

I thought incorruptible meant can't die, can't sin but who am I.
Maybe you could help us on these scriptures while you are here.

1Jo 5:18 ¶ We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 5:18 ¶ We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Jo 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

1 John, chapter 2
1: My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Mark, chapter 11
13: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14: And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.