Featured Spin off the Magi and Bethlehem Star Threads . . .

Question for asterisktom and Biblicyst:

Mat 5:45 . . . for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good. . . .
​

Does the sun go round the earth, or is it the earth going round the sun and spinning on its axis? If it's the latter, did Christ know better?

If Christ knew better, then why not just say, he bringeth the evil and the good into the light of the sun? It's what we all think is really happening anyway. Why not say it that way instead of fostering ignorance and superstition?

 

I'm asking you because you and Biblicyst like to parse words. So your hermeneutic that tells you this is figurative language is what? And why be figurative here?

 

I'm not being vague. The question is, Does the earth go round the sun, or is it the sun going round the earth?

And if Christ's words about God making His sun to rise are figurative, as you said, what is the hermeneutic used that suggests that they are figurative?

 

Yeah. Thought so. Bible interprets the Bible, or so you say until science does.

 

Lol. Actually that's what the physicists say.

Many attempts were made to prove that heliocentricity was true and geocentricity was false, right up until the early 1900's. All such attempts were unsuccessful.

http://www.icr.org/article/geocentricity-creation/

But just answer the question.

Betchya won't.

 

Because, relative to us, the earth is not in motion. And, much to my surprise earlier this year, I discovered that physicists say that the motion of the earth has never been scientifically proven, which is one reason the theory of Special Relativity was invented.

Relativity is the cosmology of the day, which says that any point in space can be assumed to be the center and motionless, and all observed phenomena explained (Yes, even all the presumed objections about the speed of light and gravity and the velocity of the distant stars etc., etc.). The effect of this theory is that the heliocentric and geocentric models are now equally valid scientific models. Neither is more 'true' than the other.

(Again, I'M not saying that. It's physicists saying that. Go to the link.)

Now, this is important, because Christ spoke of the sun rising. In fact all the Spirit's descriptions of the heavens are in undeniably geocentric terms.

So, is He establishing the more 'true' model? And how do you know?

 

I suspect the answer is going to be, "No, because science tells us . . . "

 

Actually, He is saying a little more. He is making His Father the active agent. Most people would say the sun is rising. Even in the Psalms, it speaks of the sun's circuit, not Jehovah's circuit for the sun.

So Christ is saying a bit more. He is telling His disciples to emulate the behavior of their Father in Heaven. For He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good. In other words, do what you see your Father doing.

So what do we see him doing? Do we see Him moving the sun, or the earth? (Yes, I know the point is that we don't discriminate between believers and nonbelievers in our day to day benevolence.) But would He state things as they actually are, or as they merely appear?

And if He is simply adopting the conventions of the day in describing natural events (and the only way we could say this is what He is doing is by adopting the prevailing scientific doctrines) How do you know he wasn't doing the same thing when He spoke of Creation, and Adam and Eve? And the Devil?

 

Humming the Final Jeopardy theme . . .