Sproul's Semi-Pelagian Rant

==Actually lost man does hate Christ. O, don't get me wrong. They love "little Jesus" in the manger. They love a Jesus who they can feel sorry for. They love a Jesus who does whatever they want and whom they can treat as a great big bubblegum machine in the sky. O, the world LOVES that Jesus. However, as you well know, that is NOT the Jesus of Scripture. The Jesus of Scripture is KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS, He is LORD God Almighty, He is the final judge. He was those things before the incarnation, He was those things in the manger, He was those things as He walked the earth, He was those things on the cross, He was those things when He literally/physically arose from the dead, and He is still those things today (and will always be). The world, lost man, does indeed hate Jesus because they hate who He really is. He commands all men to repent, to deny themselves, and to give their lives to Him. They don't like that indeed they hate that! Don't forget lost men are enemies of Christ (Rom 5:10, Eph 2:3). These people are against God. They don't seek the true Christ (Rom 3:11). Lost people do hate Jesus. They may not act like it, they may not say so, but in their continued rejection of Him and His Law they show their hatred of Him. Before we were saved, btw, we were all in that dreadful boat (Eph 2:2-3). Lost, damned, doomed, with NO hope. However Christ died for us, He reached down and saved us and made us new creations. He did this not because we deserved it, not because we loved Him first and were friends of His, not because we begged Him to. No! He did those things because He loved us and knew us before the foundation of the world (Rom 5:6-11, 8:29).

==As Jesus Himself pointed out several times many who came to Him in His day were coming for all the wrong reasons. They were not seeking the true and living God. Rather they were seeking physical/material benefits (Matt 13:10-16, Jn 2:23-25, 6:26-29).

==Again Scripture teaches that the lost man is an enemy of God, a child of wrath, and living in lawlessness. If they loved Christ they would come to Him. However they don't love Christ, they hate Him. There is no middle ground here. Either a person loves Christ and is saved or they are enemies of Christ and are lost (Matt 12:30, 33-37).

==If you were ever a lost man, and I assume you were because you were not born saved, you were an enemy of Christ. As for a "god-shaped hole", well if that truly exists lost man does not try nor does he desire to fill it with the true God. Only when a person is drawn to the Son by the Father, only when God brings that person to Himself, will that person desire Christ.

==Hebrews 8:10, Jer 31:33, Ez 11:17-20.

==So you deny that God must first work in the heart of the person before the person comes to Christ?

==I don't know that you are understanding him correctly, but that is not important. Sproul is mortal and can err. Scripture is the final authority and it is clear that no man can/will come to Jesus apart from the drawing of the Father. How a person figures the "order of salvation" (etc) does not matter. Personally I think it all happens at the same time and trying to figure out some "order" is useless. God can, and does, bring about the actual salvation of a person in a moment. However God does give us a general order of how it works (Jn 6:37, Rom 8:29-30, etc) and that order has God at work in the life/heart of the person before that person can/will come to Christ.

 

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[disparaging reparks deleted.
Jarthur you are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to call those that disagree with you unsaved or as you said "do not know God" or "know little of the Bible," Be warned. People have been suspended for less. Questioning the salvation of other believers will not be tolerated!]

Share your faith with non-believers and they will hate you. This is when I know I'm sharing the right God..for the world hates the God of the Bible..and they will hate you for sharing the truth.

believe it or not...we are in a war

Christ is our King..

Satan is leader of the God haters...

Sorry..that is the way it is

 

Actually SP , your title for the OP is wrong . It should be : R.C.Sproul's Rant Against Semi-Pelagianism . After all , he's not the semi-P here .

 

Amen:thumbs: I think it is another futile effort by RC's opponents to prove him wrong. I think they should instead reckon with the Scriptures, those that have given the deathblow to Pelagianism, Semi-Pelagianism and Arminianism.

Dr. Sproul is just a messenger and a good one, IMO.

 

believe it or not, I did not write this verse..

As a free-willer...does all mean all?

 

...nor does it mean they are confused...

 

I fail to see what's confusing about...

 

I like R.C. very much and consider him to be perhaps the most talented teacher I've ever sat under. I mean, he would be a great math teacher. I am also Calvinistic but when it comes to soteriology R.C. and other Calvinists will often use poor language and imagery, IMHO, and that's what I think this is.

Aer you sure? I've never heard him say that. Certainly regeneration is a spiritual change, much more than mere intellectual comprehension.

:jesus:

 

I agree. One of my "heroes", Gorden Clark, taught that faith is "assent to the facts of the Gospel", and that mental assent is saving assent. As much as I appreciate some of his teaching, I think he sacrifices the "spiritual" nature of faith too much. I think that the "inner man" consists of both the mind and the heart, which are not the same, even though in some places in the Bible, mind and heart are used interchangeably. The Westminster and the 1689 support this.

From Article 5: "...the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God; yet, notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit, bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts."

From Article 6: "...Nevertheless we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word;..."

The confession speaks to both the understanding of the mind and the assurance of the heart.

 

Anyone who is well schooled in Reformed theology knows that faith is composed of three parts, which are inseparable:

1. Notitia (facts on which to base faith, Rom.10:17; data about Christ is this case);

2. Assensus (assent to the facts of Notitia; but this is where the demons stop, Jas 2:19);

3. Fiducia (this is the heart stuff; this is where you trust, having behold the sweetness of Christ through notitia and assenting to what notitia reveal about Christ, you then trust and commit).

There is no saving, biblical faith with the right facts, assenting to those about Christ, and then trusting him, with the head and heart.

 

I think you're OK there.

But I would quibble somewhat with your terminology. I would say the Holy Spirit interacts with our SOUL (mind, will, emotions) and then regenerates our spirit, which is then "sealed". Once regenerated, there is no undoing it, that work of The Holy Spirit is complete for eternity. But our soul is still fallen, a work in progress, which is why we are told to "renew our minds" with the Word, "think on these things", etc., etc.. Our soul is saved in the sense that it WILL BE SAVED, just as our bodies are still fallen and WILL BE SAVED. But the spirit of man is already saved, having been "born again" from above. Praise God.

Here again, I believe you're on the right track. Regeneration does occur at a point in time, though I would caution that many regenerate Believers cannot point to a specific time when they were born again. I can, but John MacArthur can't. 'Reorientation', as you call it, can also seem sudden or can be so gradual it's barely noticed as it happens. Certainly, the Holy Spirit deals with the entire being during the process of regeneration but exactly how He works and when He does what will remain mysterious for at least this age, IMHO.

I think I would agree that, as human beings, our self 'command center' is the soul (mind, will, emotions) but again I believe the terminology and distinctions are important. To think of the 'spirit' of man as the mind, will, & emotions can even be dangerous, IMHO. That's how the Kenneth Copelands, Joyce Meyers, and Paul Crouches of the world walk around saying that God talks to them all the time in plain English, etc.. They are hearing voices, but the source is their own soul, not their spirit or the Holy Spirit. Satanic forces can communicate with our souls as well, that's how we are tempted and deceived, but they cannot touch our regenerate spirit, which has been sealed by the Holy Spirit. And it is the Word of God, of course, that delivers us and divides the "asunder of soul and spirit".

God is a Spirit, and I think scripture indicates that God the Holy Spirit communicates with our regenerate spirit. Before the spirit of man is regenerate, it "cannot know the things of God". It is dead, and must be born again. Generally, our regenerate spirit then communicates God's message to our minds by impressions and by other subtle communications to the soul. But it is also vital that our minds be filled with the Word of God, as that is the primary way the Holy Spirit communicates with us, as He often "brings to our remembrance" what He has said about this or that.

All of that said, God certainly isn't bound by that and will communicate with us anyway He pleases. Once, in a emergency, He or His messenger woke me up with a loud, inner-voice command in plain English. That communication saved my life. So it is dangerous to put God in a box.

I would still like to know if R.C.Sproul actually says in his book that if you can understand the preacher you are saved, or was that a paraphrase?

:jesus: